Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

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interruptor
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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by interruptor » Fri Dec 19, 2003 12:34 am

A friend lent me his <A HREF="http://www.vintagesynth.org/misc/mf103. ... ogerfooger analog Phaser</A> &#40;ca. 400 Euro/$&#41; and so I compared it with all the plugins i had at hand. <BR>None of the plugins I know can compete with this box. Freeware plugins like Nilpat, SupaPhaser and Coyote Phase One sounded thin and boring. If you crank up the resonance the sound gets metallic and unpleasant. The Phaser incorporated in emagics logic sounds somewhat better but did not really convince me. The best plug-in I found so far is Sonic Timework's <A HREF="http://www.sonictimeworks.com/p_phazerm ... 5ab945b17f"> Phazer Model 88 &#40;79$&#41;</A> The sound comes quite close to the analog box but it's missing some of the advanced features. <BR> <BR>Are there any good plugins I missed? <BR> <BR>It seems phasing &#40;like spring reverb&#41; is a discipline where plug-ins cannot really compete with the real thing so far..?

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Mike Zee
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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by Mike Zee » Fri Dec 19, 2003 8:49 am

Daniel, first of all I have nothing to say ...lol <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> about phaser-plugs...simply 'cos I don't use any...heh heh... nor I ever had any real pure analog boxes. I only used a very few digital hardware processors... and they are kinda ok... <BR>BUT! I am replying here, because I have a sort of question for... or what do you think...? Here's what hit my mind. When ever we get to the point of comparing real spring or other effect &#40;hardware&#41; with some computer based soft processor/plugIn ..I think, we often sort of ignoring somthing here. And I mean by 'something' - the way you "apply" the effect... what you apply it on, how and what do you listen to the result through and how.... <BR>I mean, there are meny other 'components' in the deal. When you 'testing' plug in, how do you do it? Do you just open some digital sample/file and play in real time process/preview or apply/process and listen after ... from the computer, trough sound curd &#40;d/a converter&#41; ..then what ? through the mixer??? &#40;mixer effects sound too&#41; ..or just through the speakers/headphones ...through any amp? amp -effect sound too&#41; .... etc etc... <BR>When you play sound through some analog hardware processor - you can not just send the same sample from you HD to the processor.... <BR>Also when you work with hardware analog/or digital processors ther are other aspects.... every processor has converter &#40;a/d d/a&#41;...then you you signal usually passes through mixer's chnl.. and every mixer has its own "sound"... <BR>you see blah blah blah... <BR>My point is..heh heh .... To really compare the result you MUST send the same input signal through the processor and listen to the result through exactly the same pass, and then do A/B comparing. <BR>Well, man, I hope I make any sense here <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>You see, I am getting to the same point...that we often comparing apples and oranges and don't realize it, and then we may come out with some sort of almost obstract conclusion, ala ...well it does not sound as 'bald' as this or that...or 'too thin'... or sort of metallic etc etc.... <BR>Remember that topic...one man here...I don't recall who.... it's in 'bas'' or synth section... He was asking the question, saying that he manged to create a very nice sounding bass from his synth, but after he records it to computer it does not sound as good as direct from the box? ... <BR>It's like the same similar situation: you can get a nice bass amp, play bass guitar through and hear really good punchy bass.... but you just can not manage to record it ..no matter what you try. Because there many other 'hidden' componets 'in the deal'. And I am talking just about sort of simple situation here: you've got the sound - now capture it. But when it comes to processing sound/effects ... there it gets even more complicated... <BR> <BR>You see... why I am even talking about it. Example: I may test some specific snare hit/hot through some 'x-named plugin' with some x-parameters settings... and I get something really greate, and then I'll let you know about it... and say something, like : "Daniel, I have this plug in, here's the settings formular - it sounds better than any real spring!!!"..heh heh .... Then you try it at your studio - and it sounds like sh&#42;t to you. And the reason for all this may be &#40;actually many reasons&#41;, because this was "working" only with this specific sound/sample...only when playing through my preamp&#40;s&#41;, mixer, d/a/a/d converters, speakers/phones... plus other specifics of the rest of the mix where the sound was used ..... - that was my 'apple' , and in your studio - you were trying out 'orange' instead, because you have all other 'hidden' componets totally different, not to mention the fact that people hear thing differently... brrrrrrrr.... ;&#41; <BR> <BR>ok, I am typing too much <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR>what do you think? <BR> <BR>/respects, <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr. ZEE

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by interruptor » Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:15 am

well, for my test i took a recent arrangement of mine and sent the piano skanks through these phasers. <BR>the software plugins were just added as insert effects in the channelstrip of the sequencer software. i added the moogerfooger in an additional insert loop to the "real world". this means all the phasers were connected in series, the signal path as well as the signal used is the same for all phasers. <BR>then i made direct comparisons between the different plugs and the analog phaser &#40;all except one phaser in bypass mode&#41;. <BR>The signal used &#40;piano skank&#41; is a very common application in dub music. so i think i can really compare the results here. <BR> <BR>and the differences were huge! a phaser basically is a notch filter with multiple notches &#40;3 or 6 in the case of the moogerfooger&#41;. the phasing sound is done by moving the position of these notches along the frequency axis manually or using an LFO. <BR>whether the result is pleasant to listen to or not therefore really depends on the quality of the filters used. I feel that in allmost all of the plugins the designers just did not care about using a good sounding filter algorithm..

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by Pete W » Fri Dec 19, 2003 1:45 pm

The best phaser plugin I've used so far is Superphaser. Sadly it's true that it does'nt quite give the desired sound. It's very much like Mad Professors phaser sound. I'll give the ones Daniel suggested.

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by interruptor » Fri Dec 19, 2003 4:13 pm

Pete, do you mean the <A HREF="http://www.dancetech.com/aa_dt_new/hard ... aPhaser</A>? <BR> <BR>daniel

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Mike Zee
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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by Mike Zee » Fri Dec 19, 2003 11:17 pm

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">the software plugins were just added as insert effects in the channelstrip of the sequencer software</FONT> <BR> <BR>Daniel, I kind of don't understand. What do you mean 'insert in chnlstrip of the sequencer software'???? <BR> <BR>The only complete SAME path could be achived to compare between analog &#40;any hardware processor&#41; and any software &#40;inside computer&#41; processor is if you can manage to run plugIn'software processor independently and have option to have in of your soundcard to be sent through the software and processed data through out of your sound card &#40;another words your computer turned into stand alone 'hardware' effect box&#41;....and then you use the same sound/signal going in/through/out the same path/mixer&#40;if involved&#41;gear and listen on the same speakers/phones. Switch between analog box through and computer through and compare. <BR>And then if you even manage this setup...this means that you only comparing how analog effect processor works agains software processor as 'stand alone including your sound card which also becomes a part of the system which you compare you analog processor with. <BR>If you use your software processor 'internally' ...applying plugin on some recorded material from your hard disc &#40;which is the way plugins ment to be used&#41;, then you don't really have a chance to REALLY compare it with analog processor. You can not 'plug in' analog processor 'inside' sequencing software <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42; <BR>Well, Daniel.... I understand, what's this all 'comparing' thig is about..... But again, from technical point ... there are 'issues' here. <BR>You see... I am not trying to say that you can not technically compare analog vs digital device/s, but it is different when you are talking about software processors/plug in, because in such situation the Production process and other effecting the result factors - also are ingradients of the 'deal'. <BR> <BR>/best.. <BR>/respects, <BR>Mike Zee aka Dr. ZEE

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by interruptor » Sat Dec 20, 2003 2:49 am

simple: logic has an audio mixer with a channel strip for each harddiskrecording track and for each plugin-instrument. each of these strips has slots to accomodate insert effects. that's where i put the phaser plug-ins. <BR>the output of this channel strip is going directly to my dsp soundcard &#40;creamware pulsar&#41; via asio connection. i use this dsp card as my main mixer. it is like a hardware digital mixer built into the pc. the dsp card has several freely configurable analog inputs and outputs. so here i can insert the analog phaser box into the signal path. <BR>if i say "the same signal path" this means i have one single large effect chain with all the effects including the analog one in series. <BR>if the analog box is in bypass mode the signal still goes through the external analog loop and i listen to the same additional D/A and A/D conversion with every effect, no matter whether it is a plug-in or the analog box. <BR> <BR>the differences between the phasers are huge in comparison to the influence of an additional D/A and A/D conversion. therefore i feel this is a good way to compare the effects. <BR> <BR>i am inpired by the phaser sound heard on seventies' recordings like for example burning spear's "civilize reggae". therefore i won't just use any digital phaser that comes along.. i know now allready that most of these sound just different. i also know that some people like "modern phaser" sounds, but not me..

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by Mike Zee » Sat Dec 20, 2003 4:17 am

Daniel, do you mean you test-"set" is something like this? <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... 93/641.gif" ALT="sound test path"> <BR> <BR>I am kind of trying to follow your description.... just to make sure that I get the right idea... <BR> <BR>/respects <BR>/Mike Zee

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by interruptor » Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:45 am

that would be another possibility, but i meant this: <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... 93/643.gif" ALT="phaser_test">

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by Mike Zee » Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:59 am

oh, I see now clear what exactly you were doing. <BR>Looks like in your setup you can easylly insert any analog/digital hardware external processor into your computer-based project without external mixer and patching. Looks cool. <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>You see in 'my pic' ..I thought you were testing some 'external' signal...not from PC. <BR> <BR>Now, I may think more seriously about buying multi in/out card/system and finally start using powers of my new PC as alternative way of production. Looks like I'm limiting myself in someways.... well, it's easy to talk about it..heh heh ....actually changing the way of production - is another story.... <BR> <BR>/respects, <BR>/MZ aka Dr. ZEE

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by pete » Wed Dec 24, 2003 6:10 am

Yes Daniel, I meant Supaphaser.........

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by Mike Zee » Wed Feb 25, 2004 6:57 pm

Daniel, I wonder if you did try Nomad Factory. Well, this is way far from "FREE"..heh heh <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">, but it looks good. Also as latest news Tascam is going to distribute it...which gotta be a sign that it gotta be good ..;-&#41;. <BR>There's 7 day trial version, but I don't want to mess with another plug installation which I may never use...since I don't do really much computer based processing &#40;well..not yet better to say&#41;... <BR>Here's the link: <A HREF="http://www.nomadfactory.com/products/bl ... /ph2s.html" TARGET="_blank">Blue Tubes PH-2S phaser plugin</A> <BR>it's a pack of plugs which look really good...the sound is another question. <BR><A HREF="http://www.nomadfactory.com/downloads/index.html" TARGET="_blank">demo versions downloads page here</A> <BR> <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by HM » Thu Feb 26, 2004 5:55 pm

try this <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/648.html" TARGET="_top">http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/648.html</A> <BR> <BR>HM

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Which Phaser Plug-In do you use?

Post by interruptor » Tue Apr 06, 2004 3:40 pm

a new free phaser plugin: <BR><A HREF="http://www.kvr-vst.com/get/970.html">Supaphaser</A> <BR> <BR>Smart Electronix have allready convinced many with their great "Analog Delay". Has anyone tried this new plug yet?

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Post by overstand » Sat Jul 12, 2008 1:10 pm

Three Good Software Phasers:

Ohmforce Ohmboyz Mobilohm
http://www.ohmforce.com/ViewProduct.do?p=Mobilohm

Audio Damage Phase 2
http://www.audiodamage.com/effects/prod ... ?pid=AD008

Sonic Timeworks Phazer Model 88
http://www.sonictimeworks.com/p_phazerm ... 6d77695fd0

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