Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

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Mike Zee
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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Sat Jan 15, 2005 6:24 am

Hi, people. <BR>Its'been a while since I've got my fingers on dubbin'.. heh heh <BR>Last night, I actually got myself into playing some primitive bass riddm. Was just messing with recording settings, trying to capture the tone. <BR>Here's a minimal dub, I've come out with. I have it downloadable at soundclick: <BR><A HREF="http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/mikezeemusic.htm" TARGET="_blank">http://www.soundclick.com/bands/0/mikezeemusic.htm</A>, <BR>the track called Primitive Man &#91;Dirty Cave Dub&#93;. <BR>What's in the mix: minimal beat, minimal bass &#40;played at once on MarcusMiller J-Bass, recorded through SansAmp with a tweak and compressor&#41;, plus some organ move. All dubbed on the fly with spring and some extra multi-delay. All mixed-down to analog tape for extra squizz and extra cave-dirt <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>Well, if you like minimal dub, give it a listen ... for the love of bass and spring-hits/bangs <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>/respects, <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE <BR><A HREF="http://www.mzentertainment.com/dub_lab.htm" TARGET="_blank">ZEE DUB LAB</A>

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:32 pm

if soundclick page does not work, I also have this track downloadable at ArtistLaunch, here: <BR><A HREF="http://www.artistlaunch.com/artist9.asp?artistid=6359" TARGET="_blank">Dr. ZEE at ArtistLaunch page</A> <BR>the track is on the bottom of the page. <BR> <BR>/respects, <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Dubb » Sun Jan 16, 2005 2:46 pm

Sorry, but the organ really sounds wrong. If you cut it out totally, and instead throw in changing echoes and reverbs or anything on the hats, it would be better. Also, the bass is totally dead and lifeless. Where is the energy? It's not a true reggae bass and does'nt have the reggae feel. <BR>There's an interesting spring reverb effect producing crashes now and then &#40;mostly near the end&#41;. It would be nice to hear more of that. <BR> <BR>The whole thing sounds very electronic in an 8-bit sort of way &#40;and that can't be fixed by real/fake saturation&#41;. It sounds exactly like the kind of thing that might be in the background when you're playing a 90s Nintendo ninja game or something. Seriously, it's got that 80s urban jazz funk elec piano feel and you should perhaps approach a vid games company to see if they're interested in what you can do. <BR> <BR>I apologise if I sound harsh. Don't take it the wrong way. You have made a real piece of music &#40;showing experience and knowledge in formal musical constructs/methods, performance and in recording/producing&#41;, but can you tell me honestly if you imagine it being played on any sound system anywhere? It follows the rules of dub &#40;OK there are no rules but you have the one-drop at the right speed and correct instruments&#41;, but can it do what dub does? <BR> <BR>I think the problem is the whole idea behind it. The whole "primitive"/"cave man" theme just does'nt compute for me. Maybe you could bring that idea out a bit more, by using melodic toms, woods, etc.

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Sun Jan 16, 2005 4:42 pm

Dubb.... <BR>You've said allot...while really said not much. <BR>I can swallow any criticism. No big deal. <BR>But I'm puzzled here with your remarks... simply beacuse no matter how I try to read through and take any of your criticism 'seriously', but... what you are saying does not make much sense in regard to the track. I'm not sure If I need to respond or not. <BR>I'll try. <BR>Organ sound wrong? What do you mean. <BR>? I gues you just don't like it. <BR>Bass got no 'energy' ? .... what ever 'energy' may mean. I gues you just don't like the way it sounds. <BR>It's no 'true reggae bass'. Oh well.... I've heard this 'kind of remarks' many times. It does not describe anything. Give me a break. <BR> <BR>Man, you don't need to 'apologise' for not liking what you hear. You can simply say - it sucks, period <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> Which is ok. <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">...can you tell me honestly if you imagine it being played on any sound system anywhere?</FONT> <BR>Yes I can. I do NOT imagin it being played on any sound system anywhere. More to say I do not imagin it's being playing anywhere period. I don't give a flying f&#42;k about anybody playing anything anywhere. I do not imagine things of that nature .... heh heh . I get into dubbing just for the love of doing it. The result is totally irrelevent to me. The reasoning for doing it starts and ends in the action. "You&#40;I&#41; dub - 'cos you&#40;I&#41; dub" - that's it, end of story, nothing more to it. <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">...can it do what dub does?</FONT> <BR>I have no idea. Actually I have no idea what is your question here about. But I guess this isn't question, but rather a staement. You are saying, that "It can NOT do what Dub Does". OK. Than, you say so. What ever "Dub Does"... in your mind, I guess, the track simply can't. So what Does Dub Do? <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">There's an interesting spring reverb effect producing crashes now and then &#40;mostly near the end&#41;. It would be nice to hear more of that.</FONT> <BR>...Hear more of that? Not possible. You get what you get. You see, when you dubbing... you seat &#40;or stand&#41; infront of bunch of sliders and knobs, you've got your finger on the 'trigger'... you make your move: what's done - IS done. When "reel stop" - it's over: end of session. There's no copy/paste option here. What do I mean? Ahhhhhh! Now we speaking! <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>Maybe in your mind there should be a "plan" for a dub track. Add this - add that. Delete this - delete that. Edit this - edit that. I understand. But that is not what I do. Could I do that? Yeas I could and I can, but I have no interest in such "productions". <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">The whole "primitive"/"cave man" theme just does'nt compute for me. Maybe you could bring that idea out a bit more, by using melodic toms, woods, etc</FONT> <BR>Well, man, computing the "theme" may require getting off the 'primitive thinking' route. <BR>Primitive Man - but not "Cave Man". It's a "primitive man" in "dirty cave". "Cave man" &#40;if there ever was a such man at all&#41; is not / was not primitive. I AM a primitive man. That's my style. I am in The Dirty Cave. The game of words is something which always interesting for me. <BR>Both "Primitive Man" &#40;which is I.&#41; and "Dirty Cave" &#40;which is the World I Live In&#41; - are allegories. It has nothing to do with a historian's or an archaeologist's" immagination about the world and the man in the world thousands years ago. And absolutely for sure has nothing to do with melodic toms and wood percussions <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">. So much for a "concept" <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">. <BR> <BR>Now, about your "advice" about me being better off trying to produce video-game tunes. I'll tell you this, man: "Just shut the f&#42;k up!" <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> keep this advice for yourself. No harsh feelings, thou... <BR> <BR>Dubb, thanks again for your comments. Appreciated. <BR>/respects, <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr. ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Neil C » Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:06 am

Hey, peace everyone. <BR> <BR>I think the bass sound is good. <BR> <BR>Mr Dubb - wrongness and the concept of 'correct instruments' have no place here in my opinion. And what is it you think 'dub does'? <BR> <BR>It was an entertaining 4.30 minutes for me, and what more can you hope for than that.

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Dubb Budd Dubb » Mon Jan 17, 2005 3:11 pm

Neil C, I mean the effect of "dread vibration". Pointless for me to try to explain it by typing like this. <BR> <BR>Mike, you must be joking! Surely you can hear what's wrong with that organ-like sound. It's just cheap, man. NOT the usual high-quality sound you come up with in your dubs. In this track, not just the sound, but the playing is wrong &#40;just sounds like bad keyboarding, as if maybe you were too confused and needed to take a breather&#41;. To give you an idea of what I mean about the problem with the organ &#40;sound only&#41;, try running the track again through your EQ, cutting out as much of the organ at around the 6kHz mark as possible, and amplify the organ frequencies that exist around 12/13kHz. That makes a massive improvement to the whole track IMO. What I would do with that sound &#40;if I liked the performance&#41; is apply varying fast-ish tremolo to these amplified frequencies. If you did that, and boosted the bass too, it would throw you into space. <BR> <BR>You mentioned bass, and stated that my criticism was meaningless. Of course, all music appreciation is a subjective matter. But the bass is the basis of all dub, and has to be strong. For a reggae bass to be a true reggae bass, it has to have an edge to it that just grabs you. The "edge" to the bass in this particular track seems washed up and washed out. You have'nt put enough balls into it. The bass on Dust Of Dub is MAD! Much better, man. You must have been having a bad day with this track. <BR> <BR>About the video games comment, this was not meant as an insult. In fact, when I make dubs video games are in mind both with regard to the influences that guide the music and the end-result I'm aiming for. Yes I always plan my dubs &#40;every EQ change and most effects&#41; in advance every time before I mix. The feel and impression I try to generate is the elusive element that guides the energy of the people when dub is played in optimal circumstances &#40;sound systems&#41;. Also, it's important to me to be breaking new ground and creating a unique sound and style, otherwise it's not in the spirit of the dub masters. So therefore I always expect dub to do more for me than simply kill 4 1/2 minutes. <BR> <BR>Overall, this track is characterised from your download link as "world music" and I won't argue with that. However, I've always despised easy listening/bad cool jazz/calypso, and even though whatever I think of them does'nt matter you at least have to admit that they are usually absent in dub. The reason is that they're gimmicky and don't work. The whole "world music" thing was a fake device to advance the new world order agenda, invented and promoted by state-fronted media organisations such as the BBC for cultural indoctrination. It has and had no creative integrity, and is nowadays just leftover junk from the 90s. Most artists look for earlier inspiration. <BR> <BR>Neil C, it's interesting that the idea of musical wrongness is regarded as counter-dub, but I would respectfully suggest that although dub culture may say one thing, the music itself is highly conforming within its own sphere, so that although there is a massive variation in sounds, you can always differentiate dub from world music. As for myself, I produce loads of dubs which I end up junking simply because they're too "out there" for anybody else to appreciate. <BR> <BR>I will put up a link to a dub of mine soon &#40;today or tomorrow&#41; basically demonstrating the typical Dubb Budd sound and you can feel free to comment on it &#40;much appreciated&#41;. It's a long way off from a yuppy piano bar sound. <BR> <BR>About on-the-hoof dubbing. I find it difficult to understand your philosophy of not caring about how the end-result sounds. Surely there must be some self-consciousness in your dubbing, otherwise how do you differentiate "dread vibration" from trance?

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Mon Jan 17, 2005 7:46 pm

Neil, thanks for listen, man. You know what it is. There's really not much to the whole thing. Really not so much to even discuss about this track... just what I've said in the original post about it. The track maybe simply borring, objectivly speaking <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> well, that's my own judgement. I just felt like dubbing... and there'Ya have it. I don't really feel like it,s something worthy of defending at all for cryingout loud <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR>I'll respond to Dubb thou, paying respect to Dubb's attention. <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">Surely you can hear what's wrong with that organ-like sound. It's just cheap, man. NOT the usual high-quality sound you come up with in your dubs. In this track, not just the sound, but the playing is wrong &#40;just sounds like bad keyboarding, as if maybe you were too confused and needed to take a breather&#41;. </FONT> <BR>No. I can't hear it's being "wrong". The way I hear it - it's right for what it is. Is it bad keybording? That is VERY possible... in a reletive ways: one man's meat is another man's poison. <BR>Is it 'cheap'? hmmmmm .. that is possible, but just as cheap as all my synth and every other thing I've ever produced: same synthesisers, same effect processors, same mixer - same sh&#42;t: usual "high-quality" sound I come up with <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">. <BR>Also, Dubb, thanks a bunch for sharing ideas on eq-treatments. If I follow your ideas, I still would have to use my ear, so... you know, there's no treatment for my ear - what my ear tells me - that's what I hear and it is an 'absolute' in my reletive miserable locked-in world - admited, and thus there's no much hope for an outsider... <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">...the bass is the basis of all dub, and has to be strong. For a reggae bass to be a true reggae bass, it has to have an edge to it that just grabs you.</FONT> <BR>It is hard to disagree with this statement. I agree <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">The "edge" to the bass in this particular track seems washed up and washed out. You have'nt put enough balls into it. The bass on Dust Of Dub is MAD! Much better, man.</FONT> <BR>Now, I can accept if you say simply that the bass is "edgeless and washed out" as your ear's judgement. I have problem thou with comparing it to 'Dust'-track. On Dust the bass is 100% sequenced with no variations through the track and also is very 'unfocused and has no punch at all" "Dust" track had its own things which were interesting to me at the moment. Now, in "Primitive Man" track the bass is actual playing all the way through &#40;no loops, no editing&#41; on real bass. Well the performance itself sure can be accepted or rejected by listener, understood. But it is puzzling to me how can you not to hear a BIG difference between to tracks bass lines, and saying that 'dull electronic mechanical bass' on "Dust" is "mad and alive", while on this track the bass is "electronic, edgeless, ball-less, with no enerergy and simply Dead". It maybe is ugly, borring, simply bad - but no way, it is NOT Dead!But then again, I guess, it is all about taste ...hmmmmm, I don't know. <BR>You see, my taste comming to the point, when I would much more enjoy listening to any bad performance than greate sequence. And trust me I can tell when it is performance and when it is a sequence. To me it does not matter how "great" dub-track is and how 'innovative' it is and how "advanced" and "complex" it is - I will not listen to it more than one time, if it is all programmed/sequenced/automated and pre-calculated - and again, I Can hear what is what and how it is made &#40;well, most of the time <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">&#41;&#40;same goes to any other musical genre&#41;. <BR>And specificly to dub: effects and treatments is a PERFORMANCE in my book. If I don't hear berformance in dub-track - it goes automaticly in one-time listen category <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> If there are 'good' and 'bad' moves in dub track - to me it is a natural part of the performance - I want to hear it all - that's what makes it interesting. <BR>I don't expect from everybody else to have the same prefences as I do, thou... <BR> <BR>Now, this one is not 100% seriously, but as note: <BR><FONT COLOR="ff0000">...So therefore I always expect dub to do more for me than simply kill 4 1/2 minutes.</FONT> <BR>Well, I don't. And I actually mean it, in a sense. To me taking dub seriously does not require to treat it as a "matter of national sequrity" <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> Dubbing to me is "Killing of A Few Minutes" in the name of love of God, in The name of Love of Bass, Space and a Big Bang <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> So there. <BR>I guess, in general arts terms, I'm an 'expressionist' , but not a 'realist'. To me art is not an act of materialiszation of pre-planed vision or idea, but rather emotional imprinting of a passion of the moment with no expectation nor resposablity for a consequence. I hope you do follow me here <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>Now, how much 'value' is contained in a single "passion of the moment"? If you ask me, my answer is: "Non, nudda-zippo". And how much control can an individual maintain over a "Passion of the moment"? - Non! That IS the key to understanding "my philosophy of not caring about how the end-result sounds" &#40;or in more general terms - how the end result will be accepted and treated by the world&#41;, because from its root, the result is not under your control nor it has any senseble value. That is not the only way you can approach the art. But that IS the way I feel comfortable with. <BR> <BR>/respects <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Dubb Triffidd » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:06 am

Mike, many thanks for taking the time to explain your musical ideas. I did find your comments quite fascinating, although I still don't understand how you can be so cavalier about how the music ends up sounding. I must also say, that I don't find planning and performance in dub to be mutually exclusive, when it comes to making transformations while recording in real time as you've described and as we both do. <BR> <BR>I have put my finger down on exactly what's up with the bass. It's the sense transmitted through the way it's being played - the timing and sustain feels lazy and it needs more funky skank in a reggae style. You know how session musicians warm up before they perform? It's got that feel to it. Urban jazz funk or something. The bass on Dust of Dub may be mechanized/automated, but that does'nt necessarily make it "dead" and more than using a real stringed instrument makes it alive. There is a bounce in the Dust bass which is absent in your Primitive dub, which comes from you applying constant changing effects to the bass and echoes on alternating beats through the song. It has an effect on the space in between the bass hits. But maybe the biggest difference is the fact that in Dust, the snares and hats seem to come out of the bass &#40;i.e. you get something like a Doppler's effect linking the bass and the drums&#41;.

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Tue Jan 18, 2005 2:47 am

Dubb, dynamic and timing in playing reggae bass is absolutely crucial. I don't mind failing <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">. It may only sound like an easy thing... until you try it <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>So I'm workin' on it. One step at the time. <BR>But one thing for sure: I'm not going back to programming. This page of the book is passed for good, the bridges behind are on fire, no way back <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>Hah -ha , I am actually seriously thinking of getting real drum-set. So if you think you've heard bad reggae? - You have heard nothing yet ...lol, stay tuned <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>thanks again for your input. <BR>/respects, <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by interruptor » Wed Jan 19, 2005 1:22 pm

yes mike.. i enjoyed the tune for it's relaxed handmade feel in the organ, bass, mixing parts. <BR> <BR>i wouldn't say that the organ tone is bad, it's just a very standard one. <BR>the drums sound pretty robotic without much variation, which contrasts a lot with the handmade feel of the rest of the track. this results in a "late eighties low-cost" flavor &#40;one man plus his drum machine <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">.. &#41; <BR> <BR>sure, there must be a reason why you come up with new albums at the rate others create single tunes. <BR>i think it's always a trade off between fiddling around until everything is correct and capturing the original inspiration for a tune. i often tend to work so long on details in a tune that the original idea is long lost before i finish.. <BR>you obviously are a the other end of the scale. <BR>ideally one should balance the two extremes. <BR>if in doubt, i feel an inspired but ruff production is still more interresting to listen to than a perfectly produced and polished nothing. <BR>For me however tone and mix are as important for creating a vibe than the actual melody or rhythm pattern. <BR> <BR>interruptor <BR> <BR>ps: i would play far more computer games if they sounded like this <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... laugh2.gif">

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Wed Jan 19, 2005 11:10 pm

<FONT COLOR="ff0000">..the drums sound pretty robotic without much variation</FONT> <BR>'without MUCH variations' ...hah hah - what variations? There'no variations there at all <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> lol. The beat is not just primitive, but actually radical. It is really just boom-chuck plus hats. Kik-snare is hard-quantized, hats are loosy. But there is no nuddu variations, not a single beat <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>Now it sucks from many points, but that's what I did. That's what it is: picture this: drum machine, bass-player, one dude with cheap keyboard/organ and a dude behind mixing desk. Well with the only difference, that all those dudes are all me <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> lol Primitive forms in Dub, sort of speak. <BR> <BR>Daniel, yeah ... balance between performance and production - is a very nice and rightious idea! Ideal. I'd say every musician producer is hangin in somewhere inbetween - swinging one way or the other , depending on the weather and amount of beer consumed ..or what ever it may be. <BR>I am in process of receiving two teacs at the moment - one two track A-4300sx and one 4track - ugly and almighty A-3340S. When these beasts arrive into my bunker - there'll be no mercey. I'll let the dust rise - worse yet to be seen ...heh heh heh , rofl, <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... lgrin2.gif"> <BR> <BR>Daniel, thanks a buch for listening and commenting. I mean , man, c'mon.... <BR>At least I feel better due to the fact, that I have some emotional motion to make dub. Lately I feel like making nothing. Everything borrrrrs me to death. I love banging on acoustic guitar thou.... this does not go away <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR>/massive respects, <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by interruptor » Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:53 pm

by the way.. regarding "minimal dub". you should listen to <A HREF="http://www.reggae-vibes.com/concert/rhy ... _sound.htm" TARGET="_blank">Rhythm & sound</A> and you will agree that your track is not really minimal. in fact when compared to rhythm&sound it should rather be termed "orchestral dub". <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... ditate.gif">

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:20 pm

Daniel, I thought there'll be some sound-samples/streams or something ...or did I miss it? <BR> <BR>Minimal beat? ha ...let's see from classics.hmmmm Sly&Robbie "Dub Softly" &#40;which I have tr#4 on S&R Ultimate Dub Collection CD, &#40;p&#41; 2000, Fine Tune LLC.&#41; The beat there is bomm-chk/boom plus soft mini-hats-tsik-tsik <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> It is not just minimal pattern, but it actually does sound like it comes out of a groove-box or sequencer...with few short snare-stroks drop-ins later in the track &#40;which are very cool to my ear&#41;. Gentle spring on the drop makes boom-chuck just "right on target" <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">. And then there's nice gentle gutar-picks, piano skanks and of course gentle bassin'. Alltogether it is very cool and pleasing. Well, I guess, the point here can be made &#40;not in regard to my tune, but in general&#41;, that it is all depends. I mean you can listen to "Dub Softly" and go mad, saying: "C'mon guys, can't you drum? What the hell is this!!!? Do I hear the legend reggae drummer or is it a cheap drum machine?????" ha hah <BR>Well, then of course, when the legend does boom-chuck but nothing else - it still comes from The Legend and thus it must be Classic, Pure and Genius <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> But If it comes from nobody - then it is cheap garbage <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>This fenomena of strange appreciations does applie in every area of life, I'd put it this way: <FONT COLOR="ff0000">The Source Defines The Perception of The Autcome</FONT>. Understanding of such psychological phenomena was/is used by buisness people, promoters, politicians etc etc... For example, to make people believe that some piece of music/song/album is greate and thus to be accepted as Such, promoter works on the IMAGE &#40;personality&#41; creation of the artist first, while the actual performace &#40;or the content of the product to be sold&#41; is secondary important &#40;if imoptant at all&#41;. Another words: If You Sell the Band to The Crowd - you don't need to worry about selling records, just keep pressing them, the crowd will never stop asking for more <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> In my book, Rollong Stones is maybe the best example of all times here <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR>/respects <BR>/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:23 pm

Daniel said: "<FONT COLOR="ff0000">orchestral dub</FONT>" <BR> <BR>ROFL!HA HA HA : <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /proud.gif"> <BR>/MZ aka Dr ZEE

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by interruptor » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:12 pm

some rhythm&sound clips can be <A HREF="http://aquariusrecords.org/bin/search.c ... hm%20sound" TARGET="_blank">heard here</A>.

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:39 pm

wow I'm streaming Jah Rule right now... sounds excellent. I totally dig!!!!!!!!!! <BR> <BR>/mz

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by Mike Zee » Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:42 pm

well, streamed other tracks there. Daniel...this maybe minimal from point of patternes... but as production this isn't primitive stuff at all... there's allot of meat in there ... I like it allot. <BR>/m z

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

Post by interruptor » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:42 am

exactly, minimal but in no way primitive. it's all sequenced and computerised &#40;except the voice and the echoes&#41; and it still sounds very much alive and not dead. i see it as an "antithesis" to the recent trend in dub to play as much as possible by hand.

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

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Primitive Man [Dirty Cave Dub] - minimal dub

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