EQ, DUB, Live: 101 / THE INTERRUPTOR DUB UNIVERSITY

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sidewayouternational
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EQ, DUB, Live: 101 / THE INTERRUPTOR DUB UNIVERSITY

Post by sidewayouternational » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:58 am

Exclusive EQ 101 video for the members of THE INTERRUPTOR forum!!!


Keep watching massive & I will slowly reveal the Dub & Electronic secrets I was taught by King Tubby ... 8-)


Respect!


The Scientist



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1T6AcJICw30









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Klaus5
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Post by Klaus5 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:21 am

Maximum respect Scientist!

Is this part of the "reggae music stripped to the bone" project?

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JahNice
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Post by JahNice » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:04 pm

give thanks for all the teachings :worship:

Yiannis

sidewayouternational
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Post by sidewayouternational » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:11 pm

na... this jus' for you guys!....


8-)

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interruptor
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Post by interruptor » Thu Apr 08, 2010 12:27 am

Thanks a lot for posting this, Scientist! I feel honoured. :proud:

I had to relisten closely to certain sections to understand your point.
What I did not understand is the exact purpose of those graphic EQs below the desk. (You say they are for vocals only and that you roll off the lowest frequencies because the speakers in the studio cannot handle these at high volumes.)
Are these equalizers used to shape the recorded vocals during mixdown or do they process the microphone signals that you record? In the later case rolling off the lowest frequencies would make sense also to prevent rumble from the microphone stand to be recorded.

Thanks and best regards
Daniel / Interruptor

Zutao
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Post by Zutao » Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:22 pm

Wow, it is THE Scientist !!!

:shock:

Bro, please stick around on this board. We are your devotees. You know, every word you say/write will be memorised. Your Youtube vids will get played hundreds of times over by us.

f = 1 / (1.6 * RC)

8-)

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noiseboy
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Post by noiseboy » Sun Apr 11, 2010 12:40 am

Hmm, not sure I was following the seminar too well there but certainly cool to hear an old hero and influence sounding like he approaches mixing with many years worth of his own experience and interpretation. We all have our own take on best practice and there are some rules we should follow even when we don't want there to be!

It looked more like a live situation in that video than a studio one and the graphics under the board had hi-pass like curves. If you want clarity on the lower end and lots of apparent volume before your power-amps clip then it makes sense to clean-up the bottom end. I know it sounds counter-intuitive for live dub-style but less real low bass, sub-sonic almost, will leave a lot more energy available a bit higher up the bass spectrum - the net result being that you can push the sound system harder whilst keeping it sounding good. Hi-pass filtering is a significant tool even in music as bass-centric as dub reggae.

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Post by sidewayouternational » Sun Apr 11, 2010 10:42 pm

ya i put this up in the Live Dubbing section because it is in a Live venue situation. (Not a studio or controlled environment by any means..)
This is the Monitor / Stage controls. The FOH main console is off to the right out of frame.

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noiseboy
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Post by noiseboy » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:11 am

OK Mr. Sideway (or anyone really) here's a question for ya. If you have a live band situation and you're there as engineer because of your dub mixing skills, how can you approach it in a similar fashion to a studio mix?
For me, a crucial rule of live engineering is that if a musician on stage is playing then they should be heard, if they are playing and no-one can hear them then it makes them and the engineer look stupid. Now obviously that conflicts completely with the creative approach to dubbing that can be enjoyed in a studio situation.
With a lot of dub mixes the majority of tracked instruments are only used sparingly throughout and this is essential in building the feel and sound of the mix. In fact that IS dub. I tried the studio approach on live bands many years ago but, not surprisingly, musicians and audience both complained about me having things turned down, so these days I have to rely on the band's own discipline and ability to dub it up live and then fit in my creative input in a more restricted way. I've found the main problem there is that musicians generally don't like standing in front of a lot of people and not doing anything so it tends toward a very different and busy style of dub.
By the way, respect to anyone who tackles this sort of thing live. It's way, way trickier than doing it in a studio where you don't have to deal with microphone feedback issues exacerbated by heavy echo and reverb for a start. I do like the fact that you only get one shot to get it right so it's more of a performance situation than it would be in a studio.

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JahNice
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some thoughts on live dub with band

Post by JahNice » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:47 pm

Well i think you answered your own question, You have to mute the
players or they have to do it by their self. This kind of live dub usually
dont work so well if the Band dont know the dub engineer and vice versa
(talking about a real dub-reggae show here, not about a reggae show
with few dubwise parts). Its best when the players hear the dubs and
adjust their playing to that, or for example, just stop playing in that delay
moments and start doing something else (dancing, smoking,
comunicating, drinkin some water, meditating or whatever). Easiest way
to aproach this live dub thing is to start of with few players like 3 or 4,
since its a learning process for both engineer and band, and have a few
sessions to adjust, then bring in more players. So in my eyes its very
important to rehearse this kind of live dub situation with a band before
you present it to an audience. I would not like to take the responsibility to
dub a band that i am not very familiar with, i think the outcome would no
be so good.

Off course when you mix a concert you can occasionally throw in some FX
in the dubby parts, but doing a real live dub-show with live band is
indeed very tricky

Peace Yiannis

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noiseboy
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Post by noiseboy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:53 pm

Well I guess it was kind of a half rhetorical question and half wanting
to get other's takes on a fundamental issue concerning live dub. I've
had the luxury of rehearsing with a band in the past and apart from that
often turning out to be more fun than the live show it's not always
practical to do. If you're engineering a band which has a majority of
(expensive) session musicians, mixing a ton of channels on large format
mixers and have to deal with F.o.H. set-ups that can be anywhere from a
32 channel budget board & small rack to the latest super-complicated (&
possibly highly unsuitable) digital mixers, or dealing with 10 minute
festival line-checks anywhere up to long soundchecks for a headline
show, it's not so easy to rehearse for that!
Often I'm just paid to do the job because I'm expected to know the
material and do a pro job. Rehearsals are rarely an option. When they
are it certainly makes a lot of difference to the end result so what you
say is sense JahNice.
There is always an element of improvisation that sits well with a
crucial dub mix so maybe we can engineer without too much worry that
it's 'right'.
If it feels good then it is.

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Post by JahNice » Wed Apr 14, 2010 10:34 am

If you deal with expensive session (reggae-)musicians, i guess they should know how to behave when you dub them, if they dont know i guess you must make them understand that before a show. But again i think DUB shows, are difficult, if the engineer dont have no good connexion to the material he has to dub(the band).
There is always an element of improvisation that sits well with a
crucial dub mix so maybe we can engineer without too much worry that
it's 'right'.
If it feels good then it is.
yep

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interruptor
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Post by interruptor » Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:05 am

Hi Noiseboy

Regarding approaches to live dubbing also see these discussions:
http://www.interruptor.ch/Php5/dubboard ... php?t=1127
http://www.interruptor.ch/Php5/dubboard ... .php?t=543

I was operating the dub effects in a live dub gig at a local jazz club some years ago. (info here)
We miced all instruments for the venues PA where the house engineer controlled the overall sound. Then we installed an additional set of mics for a small onstage mixer where I connected my dub effects. So I was part of the band adding echoes and reverbs on stage whereas each player was in charge of muting himself at will. We rehearsed once. The band had no problems playing their favourite songs in dub versions as a group effort. Since they all know what dub is about the problem of "not wanting to stand in front of a crowd doing nothing" did not arise and everybody had a great time. On other occasions I operated dub effects from the main mixer of the venue. In those cases the musicians were from different musical backgrounds (particularly funk/jazz) and they indeed often had a hard time to restrict themselves to dubby minimalism while being watched by an audience. The result was not necessarily dub but nice for the most part anyway!

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ocoughi
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Post by ocoughi » Mon Apr 19, 2010 12:38 pm

Greatings Dubbers! and greatings to the Dubmaster Scientist!
As i don't have much things to say except that i learned all by listening to your Records; here is a my version of "Lively up yourself"...
Many thanks for the inspiration master! and welcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtdLf9vRbQ
Peace & dub
Manu

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Klaus5
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Post by Klaus5 » Mon Apr 19, 2010 11:27 pm

ocoughi wrote:Greatings Dubbers! and greatings to the Dubmaster Scientist!
As i don't have much things to say except that i learned all by listening to your Records; here is a my version of "Lively up yourself"...
Many thanks for the inspiration master! and welcome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YtdLf9vRbQ
Peace & dub
Manu
That is some heavy dub!
:speaker:
Excellent mix! Bit hectic in parts maybe, but very raw and heavy. You have a top ranking sound. My ears particuarly enjoyed the high pass action around 1:30 and the playing with the tape speed around 2:50. What is the orange thing on top of the desk? A filter unit youve made?

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ocoughi
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Post by ocoughi » Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:24 pm

The orange box is a 2nd generation of the modified wahwah i built. It's a crybaby (old one). I've heard that the Morley wahs were used in the 70's as a filter in some jamaicans studios...don't know if it's true but it's an interesting texture of filtering. Crunchy style... a wah is acting like a lowpass/bandpass filter.
But the best would be to find tubby's schematics 8-) ...
The one that use Scientist in his recent videos is very attractive too!! Can you tell us a little bit about this secret weapon?
Peace.

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noiseboy
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Re: EQ, DUB, Live: 101 / THE INTERRUPTOR DUB UNIVERSITY

Post by noiseboy » Mon Jul 05, 2010 11:22 pm

sidewayouternational wrote: Keep watching massive & I will slowly reveal the Dub & Electronic secrets I was taught by King Tubby ... 8-)

Respect!

The Scientist
I'm still watching (though not feeling too 'massive' right now). Still waiting too. You weren't kidding about the slow revelation were you? :wink:

RubADuck
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Post by RubADuck » Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:46 pm

is the video available somewhere else ??
cause the link isn´t working anymoree...

RubADuck
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Post by RubADuck » Sun Mar 10, 2013 9:04 pm

is the video available somewhere else ??
cause the link isn´t working anymoree...

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