Researching DUB - 12" Vinyl

rebop · Post by **rebop** » Wed May 21, 2003 8:01 pm

Hello, This is a serious inquiry. I am a researcher and have been retained by a client to find and build a DUB library on 12" vinyl. Before today, I had never heard of DUB. The client would like to buy approx. 1,000 12" vinyl DUB records, and at that quantity, would like a wholesaler. He actually is currently in Jamaica. Any information that would be helpful would be appreciated such as Record Company names and contacts, DUB record wholesalers, even recommended discographies. Feel free to email me at <A HREF="mailto:rebop@well.com">rebop@well.com</A> with any leads or pointers. I will check back here periodically as well. Thanks for any help you may be able to provide. -=Bob=-

Post by **interruptor** » Fri May 23, 2003 4:44 pm

i know that dub is almost forgotten in jamaica nowadays. i was once told to go to london when asking for dub at augustus pablo's record store in downtown kingston.. may i ask you who this mysterious customer of yours is who is hiring a person without knowledge about the matter and apparently is willing to shell out a substantial amount of cash for it? must be a sound system (or a nerd..) why else would he absolutely need it on vinyl? i'd suggest to check the dub labels listed on my <A HREF="http://www.interruptor.ch/links.html">links page</A> for a wholesale price on everything dubby in their catalog or ask a big distributor like <A HREF="http://www.ebreggae.com">Ernie B's</A> the same question. a list of recommended dubs by our site users can be found <A HREF="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... 6">here</A> cheers the interruptor

rebop · Post by **rebop** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:06 pm

Hello Interruptor, Thanks for your reply. You pages have been very helpful to me. My client is a retired businessman seeking these as a gift for his son. I am a professional researcher and find things like this all the time. I last worked on Cuban cigars for him, for example. I learn something new every time he asks me a question! His son, by the way, as many audiophiles, prefers the sound of vinyl to CD. I can understand. I do tend to agree with you that I am going to have the best luck in the UK or perhaps Germany. I am emailing a vendor there, but I don't think they are taking my inquiry quite seriously. -=Bob=-

Post by **interruptor** » Fri May 23, 2003 6:28 pm

i see.. regarding dub on vinyl vs. dub on CD. be aware that most reissues of old dub are digitally remastered copies of old vinyl from the 70ies. they do this to reduce the noise and cracle found on old (and new) jamaica pressings. this means it really makes no difference whether you buy it on CD or vinyl. you are listening to digitized music anyway. so if it has to be analog, make sure you buy only vintage pressings and be prepared to pay collectors prices for it!

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Fri May 23, 2003 10:07 pm

Daniel is making an important point/note about currently released LPs. Many of them are (what I would put as...) 'plastic versions' of digital production <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">. Also, well, I am not sure about this, but as I understand, I don't think you get any 'luck' on finding a place to buy large amount of records for 'discount' price if you are buying vary records one of each. I mean if you buy 1000 or the same records - then you can get it cheap direct from producer/wholesaler. I your case it looks like you simply need to find a place where the prices are 'reasonable' and make your selection. Well, maybe you get some sort of discount overall if you buy 1000 records from the same 'store'....BUT! it is also kind of hard to belive that one single store will have 1000 of different items which will 100% satisfy your needs/interest/request. You may have to shop around and pick a few records from different stores, where ever you mat find something to 'build up' your collection. Well, I don't know... but from point of REALITY - I'd say, that good DUB-LPs 1000 records collection (after all the research time, shipping costs etc...) may become a somewhat $10,000-$15,000 - gift, NICE GIFT <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">.... good luck, /best regards, /Mike Zee, aka Dr. ZEE <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/music2/mikezee/zdl.html" TARGET="_blank">Z-D-L</A>

aleph · Post by **aleph** » Sat May 24, 2003 6:05 pm

I have an album (prince fary 's dub to africa)in CD and vinyl . I found they's a lack off warmth on the cd(remasterised from the vinyl),it's easy to hear it, especially on these wonderfull bass,kick,hihat sounds made at sherwood studio i gess... It seems like some extreme frequencies has been cut Does it came from the 16bit/41hz filtering , from a bad remaster,or both? I don't know ,that's the only album i could really compare.

Post by **interruptor** » Mon May 26, 2003 1:58 pm

i once had a contrary experience when listening to miles davis' album "kind of blue" on cd and vinyl: in that case the cd sounded warmer.. it could be that they intentionally did this when remasterimg the album. or maybe i got this impression due to the specific sound characteristics of my phono pick-up and the d/a converter in the cd player. cheers daniel

aleph · Post by **aleph** » Mon May 26, 2003 2:37 pm

So much parameters in sound science and technologies , it's always difficult to know... Masterisation like making a vinyl is a hard work , needs an experience that only a few have and expensive toys,it can make the difference beetween two productions. But I'm a vinyl addict like rebop,because i like doing the d.j sometimes,it isn't as funny with c.d.

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Mon May 26, 2003 3:05 pm

Guys, my two c on this... To compare original LP and its CD-version is easy if you got both, but to conclude with 100% certainty what's better is hard... and often really has no 'clear' point. The thing is: what exactly are you(me,we) comparing?... I mean, are we comparing the actual 'source' or the result we getting when playing LP and then CD on our specific stereo-setup. This 'result' is a combination of many factors: what kind of CD player/d/a-converter, what kind of turntable (and what condition of t-table and LP itself), what pre-amp, amp, speakers etc. I have a few albums both CDs and LPs (nothing dub, but some other stuff, examples: Pink Floyd albums, few ACCEPT albums, M Jackson's Thriller, Kraftwerk...bunch of other pop and rock stuff). And I really can not tell what's better overall. There are goods and bads in both. One thing for SURE, thou... that the sound and feel and 'taste' is way way different. I like LP sound allot, including cracls and clicks <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> For CDs from Audiophile point - it is very important to have hi-end d-a converter, which means that if you have any regular priced cd-player deck, like $100-200 - you don't really have a good player <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... rt/sad.gif" ALT=":(">..even it may sound good, you still don't get everything what you could from the source (which is digital data and it takes a "Good Computer" to 'turn' it back to life...in a sence, CD-player IS a computer, you know <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">). So you can get closer to audiophile level with LPs much cheaper than with CDs. But you get all other problems which come with lps, dust-free, no scratches, good condition phono-pickup. And the biggest problem is - there are no much LP releases outthere anymore... AND, there are less and less producers every day out there who do have knowledge and experience (or do care enough to learn) on 'how to' make great sounding LP, because the process is way differnt that mastering for digital media (CD-release) /respects, /Mike Zee, aka DrZEE

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Mon May 26, 2003 3:07 pm

heh heh, Aleph, looks like we are typing at the same time pretty much the same 'thoughts' <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> lol.. /Mike Zee

Sata Weeva · Post by **Sata Weeva** » Mon May 26, 2003 3:24 pm

And on the other side... When I was a yout di music I listened to was on cassette and when I growed up I got a cd-rom and now mainly listen a cd's. Point being - I never had the vinyl experience. So when I do hear records with crackle, etc, it detracts from the music. Maybe the love of vinyl is more a nostalgia ting than anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong but vinyl is still being produced in Europe on a reasonable scale? Here in Oz deh is only one vynil plant. At least was di case a few years back. Respect.

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Mon May 26, 2003 4:00 pm

Sata Weeva, I'd say crackles ARE nostalgia ting for sure...for me -IT IS <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> heh heh And the sound of plastic as the whole is also a sort of nostalgia in many cases. It's just so different, especially if listen with good pair of headphones. LPs are still out there...well, I guess in some parts of the world more than where I'm... But there's nothing in major records stores, some still have some in 'the corner'. I am not sure, but I think LPs now are still alive becouse of DJs. I know many DJs who never even think about switching to CD-players, no matter how advanced those DJ-CD-Players are... year, right, you know, you can 'scratch' on CD-Player to now, you can even "scatch" on mp3-files player ...hah hah hah ... have you heard those 'scratches? - goooooooooshhhh, you get better scratch with sand-paper <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Turn-Table pitch control also sounds/and feels different (it's like 'real SPEED' control, you know <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">) from CD-Player pitch control. But again, world is changing. I've seen many factories which used to make LPs no longer do it - simply because there's no much 'orders'... /respects, /Mike Zee aka DrZEE

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Mon May 26, 2003 4:24 pm

one interestin note, btw <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> This is something I only have seen once and never any notes like this on any other records ..heh heh So, on the back tray card of Metallica's "Master Of Puppets" CD-Album release (p) 1986, right under the song titles, you can't miss it <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">, here exact quote: The music on this Compact Disc was originally recorded on analog equipment. We have attempted to preserve, as closely as possible, the sound of original recording. Because of its high resolution, however, The Compact Disc can reveal limitations of the source tape. Now, can someone help me out here... what exactly are they trying to say and why? <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> No matter how many times I read it - I don't get it. Not to mention of what the point of putting this note on your album to begin with? The only my conclusion is: they are saying: "Our source tape is so unbelievable - so freaking good, just as we ARE, we just wish you had a chance to hear it, but this CD is real sh*t" ..heh heh /respects, /Mike Zee, aka DrZEE

Sata Weeva · Post by **Sata Weeva** » Tue May 27, 2003 3:13 pm

It's Metal Licker, they are shit! Specially these days. They seem to say the source tape was shit and cd brings that out. Makes sense. You can hear how bad it is without the warmth and crackles of a record masking it. <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> One Love.

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Tue May 27, 2003 8:46 pm

Sata Weeva, lol ..heh heh what IS confusing to me, that they say first: "we were trying to PRESERVE" (so I guess there was something REALLY GOOD on tape to be preserved <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">) and then they say, but "hight resolution" (high resolution of what , btw???? back then in eighties ...who knows...<IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)">), so because of high resolution this CD "reveals limitations of the source" ... hah hah ... what ever /respects, /later, /Mike Zee aka DrZEE

Rootzilla · Post by **Rootzilla** » Wed May 28, 2003 5:34 pm

The point is something like this: - our source tape has flaws (like any recording) - in analog media, you would not be able to percieve these flaws (due to lower resolution of the format) - on the cd, you might be able to hear these flaws, and if you do, rest assured there's nothing wrong with your cd. There are actually quite a number of records out with the similar kind of disclaimer... I think it might have originated when the cd was first brought to market and companies were trying to prove cd's way better than anything else. You know: - Hey, I can still hear the tape hiss, what takes? - Oh, that's just because of the analog source, you see, the cd format is made in heaven & faultless... I think a big factor with the 'vinyl sound' is the roll-off effect on the high freq's. Vinyl's response is not linear in the highs, and I think this is often percieved as 'warmth', even with vinyl that's been mastered off a digital source. One love, Rootz

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