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how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ?

 
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yvo2000



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 10:41 am    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

I have a preset on my keyboard close to a sine bass signal. With a little bit of work i obtain a massive killer bass sound that i want to use for modern dancehall kind of tunes.

The problem is that as long as i keep it inside the keyboard the bass sound is close to perfection, but it really is bullshit to record in the computer that i use as a multitrack recorder.

Does anyone have some trix to record bass synth sound without loosing all the impact ? How to make it come out of the trax ? A more better soundcard can make it (which one)? Sometimes if you listen to some sounds like Tony Rebel they have this sound that i look for...

Thanx for answering (and please no answer like : only real bass strings can make it... 'cause that is not the question i'm askin')

Keep on dubbin'
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:10 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

what exactly is happening to the bass sound when recording it to the computer?
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

Yvo2000 , could you give us specifics.
When you play your keyboard what do you listen the output through? (headphoned from keyboard, output through any preamp, mixer, what amp, speakers, monitor etc?)
What soundcard do you have and how exactly do you record the sound from keyboard (what output from keyboard, do you send it to in-soundcard through any mixer, preamp, amp etc? or direct from out-keyboard to in-soundcard?)
How do you set record level on your computer (any special software?)
How do you listen the sound from your computer? (analog out (soundcard) through the same set (mixer/amp/speakers/headphones?) as you listen to the sound from your keyboard or is it DIFFERENT?)
You see, there are too many 'if(s)' without knowing your exact situation to try to guess what "the problem" could be.
Also the rule of thumb (general) when sampling/digitizing analog source record at HIGHIEST record-level possible without digital-clipping. This means that you record 'more data' which keeps the haracteristics of the sound. With bass sounds it is especially important. You always can then reduce the level when mixing if needed.
In general the sound card (a/d d/a converter sure can be the issue, but it may be much more complicated regarding to what soundcard/system do you use. Some cards are actually may be ok for playing back audio from your computer for general use, but totally unacceptable for music-production recording.
The main focus, again, is: to digitize the sound and preserve its quality lies within a/d converter. In general only hi/price/pro cards can do the trick.

/respects,
/Mike Zee aka Dr.Zee

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yvo2000



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Oct 08, 2003 8:15 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

Yess I'm back !!! By the time I've posted my message, i've find a very cheap second hand Egosys 8X8 4X4 24bit soundcard. The man who wants to sell it to me, let me take it home to take time to test it... and it makes a world of a difference compare 2 my old Guillemot Isis soundcard...

Still the question could be ask in a different way... how 2 make a deep synth bass sound (close 2 a sine) pass thru small hearing system ? How you guys make your bass come out of the mix ?

I play bass guitar a little bit but not good enough to be happy with it when it comes 2 make serious dub session !!!!

P.S. 2 Interruptor : I love the sampled bass sound that you're usin' in your music ! Very deep ? What's the tricks 2 make a good bass sound patch (per exemple fo NN-XT Reason sampler ?) 2 Mike Zee : I wish i could play the bass as well as you do

Thanks for takin' time 2 give me a answer...

keep on doin' that sweet reggae music !!!
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 5:22 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

if you want to hear the bass on small systems too you have to get some overtones. a sine wave alone will not be heard. try a bit of distortion or tape saturation.
which of my tunes are you refering to? i may remember how the bass was made..
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yvo2000



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:16 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

I love the bass in "Confident Dub" i.e.

Those last two days with my new soundcard i've got plenty of production inspiration, and i'mix one of my deep close2sine own synth patch with a sampled bass sound from the Halion soundbank. It takes me a good hour to adjust da levels, setup and eq's correctely, then i've tried a little AMB studio reverb from Reason, and with this material i've made a patch for NN-XT Reason sampler... the result is the best i never had and i'm kind of finally happy with it... but still, in repeated short notes (1/16th i.e.) i can't avoid a "blirp-blirp" sound between notes... if i choose the mode legato and fix it not 2 short it disappears but still i whish i could be clean all the way down....

Now my special musical obsession from those last days is "how 2 make the perfect bass sound patch for the NN-XT sampler... 'cause if you take your samples on commercial dedicated CD... most of the time it is simply useless for realistic dub music unless you trafic the sound... One question can be "how should i fix the attack, the decay & the sustain for the best result ?

PS... Another question for Daniel as it seems you come from Switzerland : Where can i find a good deal to press my own dubplate here in Switzerland... (any adress, website, e-mail) I'll be thankfull...
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2003 10:32 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

yvo2000, ok, so get your card working and see how it goes. You may have big difference now with your result on recording to computer and monitoring/playback from comuter as well.
Also, I never was a good bass player :)... nor I play much at all. The only album where I actually played real bass through most tracks was "Carelessly Guilty [crippled over dub]" ... the rest I always was sequensing bass, combining vary techniques (midi synth/sampler, and audio takes inside CakeWalk Pro-Audio).
Daniel (Interruptor) gives you a good trick/tip. Btw, this can be applicable not just for dub but for reggae music in general. One of the common musical signature of reggae music is (what I call) "harmonic reinforcement" of bass-line, where I do not mean it by "heavyness" of bass, but by adding to the bass-line more harmonic/mid-range sounds instruments, like some mid-range organ notes, or muted-guitar pics and such, which in general makes bass-line more upfront. This also makes the bass-line 'listenable on any speakers, including small "bas-free" am-radio speakers like, where bass isn't in present at all, while higher "notes" are still there.
Adding a little distortion also does the trick, but you still may want to try to add a lo-volume level some harmonic sounds/instruments. You really need to experiment with it.
Also I wish to add (from my own experience). One of the "problem" when trying to create nice'n'haevy bass lines is that bass drives speakers in very speciffic and "strange" way, which may be often 'misleading'. Here's what I mean. Especially if you have a nice bass-reproducing speakers and listen to your mix loud - the sound which you actually hear is not just what's in the mix, but also what comes from vibration of the speaker-box/parts or even stand/desk and the whole room/items around ...heh heh .... And differen speakers creat the whole variety of different "extra-sounds" (same goes to head-phones btw), which may create a sort of nice audio-groove/audio-picture, and you may not realize, that it is only an illusion. Well, this is another good reason to actually have a flat monitors which do not 'spice' your mixing experiences. One of most famous monitors are YamahaNS10, which sounds like "sh*t" what ever you do, but they give you a sort of good platform to create a good sounding mix on almost any consumer speakes/systems.

later,
/respects
/Mike Zee aka Dr.ZEE
ZEE DUB LAB

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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 10, 2003 10:02 am    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

on "confident dub" i doubled the bassline with muted guitar notes one octave above the bass. (exactly what mike suggested..)
when mixing together different bass sounds make sure you only use the low end of one. from the others just use the harmonics (cut the low end with the eq). doubling sub bass is not efficient and can result in an unstable sound.

about the clicking in between notes: this can happen when the attack and fadeout times of the volume envelope are too short. try to increase these times a bit and see if that helps. also make sure you don't play overlapping notes (check in the matrix / piano roll editor of your sequencer and edit if necessary)

for the dubplate question see this separate topic
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yvo2000



Joined: 09 Sep 2003
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2003 12:04 pm    Post subject: how to record a close 2 sine synth bass sound ? Reply with quote

I've tried to cut down the bottom end of the close to sin basss sound that i mix with a filtered finger bass sound to only keep the bottom end of the finger bass. I've also turned the volum of the sin wave lower on upper notes 'cause it tended to overcome the fingerbass wave -------> oh yess ! now my patch sounds clean, stable and beautiful... the best bass sound i've never had in years of tryin' makin' good computer-based reggae music....

Thanks a lot for the infos, both of you guys are goldmine for people like me.... keep on doin' your thing !
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