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the mixdown

 
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Martin



Joined: 22 Sep 2001
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2001 8:11 pm    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

How can i get more flexibility in the mixdown process? I'm using an analogue desk without
automation and i don't want to delete all
unwanted material from each track before the mix.
What are your opinions?

greetings
Martin
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2001 12:06 am    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

two ideas:

- copy those parts you want in your mix on a separate track (if you have one left)

- get someone to help you mute and unmute the tracks during the mixdown


(or ahm..
- don't use an analogue desk)
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DC



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2001 8:24 am    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

That's the art of DUB.
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2001 7:35 am    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

Martin,
if you describe your situation with more details (what's your multitrack (digital, analog tape, how many tracks...???), what's your mixer, some ideas of how you set it up, what effects units and what do you wish to do etc..., and also some ideas about what's the actually recording material is on your multitrack)..., then guys maybe will be able to give your some thoughts.
well, I mean, the way you ask the question is very general, and what DC is saing is the answer I guess..., you know... ;)

However, I wish to note one general thought here:
The limitation of having only two hands, one head is not really something bad. It's just what it is.
I hope you know what I mean. Some analogy, as example: drummer has only two hands and two feet...and all the most MAGIC drum "lines" were created with two hands and two feet...., well, if drummer had six of each it would be somehow different. Would it be 'better' ...I am not sure. Somehow I don't think it would.

best regards N'respects,
/Mike Zee

_________________
Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE
ZEE DUB LAB
Dr ZEE WORKSHOP
MZEntertainment.com
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dubwisdom



Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2001 2:11 pm    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

practice makes perfect.
-g
www.mp3.com/ode
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Martin



Joined: 22 Sep 2001
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2001 10:20 pm    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

thanks for the feedback,
I'm using Akai Dr16 and a Sondtracs Solo 24-4-2.
Everyting is live music on there, 6-8 tr drums,
several perc. tr, pianos ,guitars doubling the
bass and the offs, bubbling etc.
Mike: the "octopus" drummer is a good example(my main job is to be a drummer):The only thing the engineer can do is to practice and improve.

greetings
Martin
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2001 12:43 am    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

Martin,
I use two DR4d(s) linked together ..., so I have 8 tracks.
Dr16 must have very similar working structure. You know you can reletively easy to re-arrange your complite recorded project without deleting the original takes. You can simply 'mark' IN and OUT point and copy the whole song (all tracks) up in time, so you have a "twin copy", and then do what ever you wish with it, like deleting parts of vocals, instrumentals or what ever. But !!!, this will be possible if you still have enough HD free space, depending on how long the song is, how many tracks recorded and what is the size of your machine's internal Hard Disk.
If you don't have enough free space to completely copy the project, then you have two options, as I see it.
One is: make decission for sure what parts and on what tracks do you want to delete (say: mute). So let's say, you wish to cut out some parts of the vocals on track 7 and 8 (as example). Next you need to "mark" points in and out, so all recordings on track 7 and 8 will be in between of these points. IMPORTANT!!!-before you do anything else store this points in memory. This is one of the functions of AKAI recorders. You should know that you can store in memory up to 99 points and later recall them. But you still need to use paper and pen to write down what are these points. Also you can simply write down time and frames of these points , but it's better if you store them. So, next you want to copy all the recordings on track 7 and 8 to different location (somewhere up in time), which will be there as "back up copy". REMEMBER!!!- you also need to store the point where you are placing (copy-pasting) the "back up" take, because later you will need that point to get the take back to "original position". OK, so it goes like this: Go to the point before the beginning of the recording. Hit "store" , then hit "IN". So it is "IN" point. Then hit "store" again and hit any key-No. (so you also store that point in memory for later recall), so let's say you store it as key:1. Next go to the end of the recording. Hit "store", then hit "out", so it is "OUT"-point. Next go to any point in time after (above) the song's ending. FIRST hit "store" and then hit any key-No. So you also store that point in memory. So let's say you store it as key No. 2. Next hit edit untill you select "copy", then hit "store", then you will need to select source and destination tracks , then you will need to select No. of repetitions, but you don't need to do this, because it will be ONE repetition, so you just hit store again, and the machine will start copying the take between pint IN and OUT to destination tracks at the point you were at the moment which you also stored as Key No2. Next you just play bak from that point to make sure that you have it there right. So as you see the idea here is to just copy-back up only the track which you wish to work on, and not to duplicate everything, so you can have enough disc space for the job.
So, next you just do what ever you wish, like deleting some parts etc...., mixing down , making you dub ....
Then later, after you are done, you can "restore" the original recordings on track 7 and 8. To do so you will need to copy the original recording "down" to original position. So you first "recall" point of KeyNo.2. Hit store, then hit "IN", so it will be point IN. Then go to any time mark after(above) the recording. Hit store and hit "OUT", so it is point out. Next recall KeyNo1. Going to the original position of the take. Next hit edit, select copy, select source and destination tracks, 01 repetition, hit store, it will copy the take back to original position. Note: that COPY command replacing all the material on destination track.
Martin, my guess is that you know all this technical things, I am just describing it in case. If you are not sure how to do all this, then go through manuals. Also I don't know for sure about Dr16. It may have some different steps on how to do copy/paste.
********
Now, second option, actually the RIGHT way to go, sort of speak, is to back-up the project and then work on it. And I mean to back it up on DAT or external HD. I know that JAZ-drive can be used for back up(s) too. I use to back up projects to DAT. It works very well, but pain an a a**, really. And it's a slow process, you bassically backing it up in real time two tracks at the time.

well, man,

best of luck

/Mike Zee

_________________
Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE
ZEE DUB LAB
Dr ZEE WORKSHOP
MZEntertainment.com
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dubwisdom



Joined: 22 Aug 2001
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2001 3:49 am    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

Try dis:
-mixdown the drums FIRST on a stereo track
-send this mix to track 1-2
-send the same mix, but in mono, to track 3
-don't assign track 3 to the main mix, just tweak the aux to send massive delay and reverb effects.
-now you have 4 tracks less and more... flexibility!

Also, here's some advice:
-Don't try to tweak all the knobs at once. Just check out Tubby or LKJ playing with a single reverb during a whole track. Or Mad Prof, playing with really long delays, during which he "messes" up everything with phasers. A little effect goes a long long way.

-Mixdown with NO dub effects, then mixdown this stereo track with the tracks (un-assigned) that you want effects into (snare, skanks, vocals, etc). Then, all you have to do is to tweak the effect sends on the un-assigned tracks.

Of course, these techniques don't preserve as much of the sound quality but they are much more flexible and make the tweaking easier. Hope this will help.

-g
The Omega Dub Experiment
www.mp3.com/ode
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RUU



Joined: 06 Aug 2001
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2001 11:29 pm    Post subject: the mixdown Reply with quote

I read in the LsP Biography

In the B.Ark Perry took whole days to create the riddims and about one whole day to mix.

I think the more you try and practise the better you get.(exept you dont got much ability)

and if you still will not get a good mix,keep askin your friends if the mix is good and delete the mistakes and make it a bit better till it sounds good.
Try:mix it and take the tape on a casette-recorder outside,walk around with it and listen to it in the nature,then you can catch the vibe outside your production room.
Practising is the Key
But IF ITS HOT ITS HOT IF NOT ITS NOT.

Peace,
Ruu.
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