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Digital to Analog

 
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2008 6:14 pm    Post subject: Digital to Analog Reply with quote

Hey, I have a question about digital to analog recording.

My studio setup so far (due to VERY tight budgeting at the moment) is all done through the pc. No external influence at all. I was wondering if your recordng is done all digital and you put it on vinyl for instance, would the music have that warm analog characteristic sound as if the music was recording through analog means only, or would the digital influence still be dominant?
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jahwize



Joined: 07 Sep 2008
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi,

maybe the vynil will add some analog flavor but if your recording master is digital and maybe cold without real analogik gear that warm the sound, the vynil procedure will not make your tune sounds like someone who use that kind of gear like tubes etc etc. It will not do a magic think....

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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
thanks for the reply.

I was just wondering if it were possible. Now on the other hand, if a recording is done with analog gear only (I know that most gear is like a hybrid though), and the album copies goes to cd format, would the analog character be fully replaced by digital quality?

Sorry for being a pest, but I'm new to this sort of thing.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(wanted to delete - double post)

Last edited by Neil C on Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2008 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rickd wrote:
and the album copies goes to cd format, would the analog character be fully replaced by digital quality?


No!
You only need to listen to pre-digital recordings released on CD.
The Blood and Fire label catalogue would be one good place to start if you need proof of this.

'CD quality' has a higher frequency limit and greater dynamic range than tape (which is what an all analogue recording would have been recorded on).
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh Ok.

See, here is the deal of my whole situation. Maybe you could help me better.

I like analog recording simply because of the sound it produces. Digital is higher quality, but too clean and cold for vintage lovers. However, I was pretty much forced to choose the digital route due to lack of money and space, so all of my recording is done within my pc.

Being said that, what I wanted to do was take my recordings and have them mastered in analog format to get the analog sound if possible. IF it is possible, what would be the procedure to get that done I wonder?
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Recording your digital recording on to tape (and then recording it back to digital) will add the character of tape (the effect of which many people desire).
Many professional mastering services I would expect would offer this facility.
The other things you might want to do to analogue it is have an analogue eq and compressor used on it (don't do those things to your mix if you are getting it ('pre') mastered in another facility), and those certainly most good mastering services would offer (and often highlight).

Of course, hundreds of software effects and instruments try to emulate analogue hardware, and there are some very good ones.


Last edited by Neil C on Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks SO MUCH for the info Neil.

I was wondering if there was just one traditional /acceptable route to go with this. After reading your post, I looked for analog mastering and actually did find software that takes care of this sort of thing (Although expensive). I'm going for it though because it beats having to record the tracks to tape then back to digital.

It may not be a traditional method, but if it gets the job done then I see no problem with it.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 7:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unfortunately at the moment there isn't anything in VST or AU format that does tape simulation really well (there's something for pro tools but I daresay that isn't perfect).
This is something we all want. One day there will be something. Hopes are high for the Emprical Labs Fatso due out for the UAD system.
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh yes there is. Check this out. This is the one I mentioned in my last post.

http://www.t-racks.com/Main.html?prod_TR_24

Expensive for software, but you'd pay just as much and more for hardware units, plus lose physical space.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That T Racks doesn't mention a tape simulator. The 'soft clipping stage' I guess is designed to give something of the effect of tape but it doesn't claim to be a tape simulation. If it really made things sound properly analogue we'd all be using it.
If you haven't got a 100 or whatever TRacks is, then, yes it's expensive. It's not much though compared to the deep money pit of music technology.
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should've made it clear that it didn't mention anything about tape simulation.

I believe it is new, so it is not well known yet. Even if it was well known, there are alot of people out there who still wouldn't use it, because they want hands on equipment compared to software. I still wouldn't rule this T-rackS thing out by any means though. But seriously, $229 or however much it is, is alot of money to spend on software, especially for the fact that you can't try before you buy like you can with some hardware, so you really don't know what you are getting until after you spend all of that money.

Ah, whatever, at least I know that there is an alternative that I can use. Once again, thanks for your help. Thank You as well Jahwize.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
T-Racks isn't new - it's one of the older kids on the block. It's been around for at least 6 years - http://www.audiomidi.com/aboutus/reviews/douglas_t-racks.cfm
times have moved on.

T-Racks might be perfectly decent, it may even be your best option for the money I don't know, but I've been hanging around various music tech forums for several years and I've never heard anyone recommend T-Racks. If it was so great I would have heard. Almost everyone wants a bit of analogue magic, people would have noticed if T Racks gives it all.

Plenty of professionals do use software many examples of which emulate an analogue original.

There are lots of alternatives to T-Racks (although not all in your budget).
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just because it's not popular doesn't mean it's not useful. Even the most popular studio tools out there were criticized by those skeptical of their performance before they were put to use, now people can't live without them in their studio.

I know pretty much nothing about this T-rackS so I can't back up it's claims. I just want to give it a try. Maybe it's worthy, maybe it's not. Never know til you try.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While there might be a bit of price snobbery and people might think cheaper things won't be top quality, I think it's hopeful thinking to expect T-Racks to be fabulously good. It might indeed be good (it might be great value for the money, I don't know), but I'd wager it isn't top-notch.
6 years is a long time for something to prove itself (T-Racks in fact is widely known)- not everyone in the know is a mug to pay for other things if all they need is less than 150.

As for claims - all manufacturers are going to talk about their product in the best light possible - they are not going to mention the shortcomings.
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess the only way to prove for sure if it's actually worth it is to self-test it. I'm not going to rely on whether or not the other guys use it or don't.

For instance, in the reggae industry there is alot of hype about Cubase and ProTools etc, but when I tried it out, I found that it was confusing and I didn't like it so I use Mixcraft instead. So just because something is popular and everyone's using it, doesn't make it the best for everyone else and vise versa.

It's really not about how long it's been out, it's about the right people finding it and being able to make it work for them.

I never heard of this T-rackS thing before until today, but I'm pretty sure some have tried it and said it didn't do the job, while other's found that it was good enough for what they want. I'll never know how good it really is for what I want til I use it for myself. If it doesn't work for what I want doesn't mean squat to the next guy.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Thu Sep 11, 2008 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed one man's jam is another's marmite.
Let us know how you get on with it if you try it.
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alert!
Try PSP Mixpack before you shell out on anything.
It has a demo version - and I'd warrant that whatever T Racks does Mixpack does it at least as well. This is one of the alternatives I knew was there but couldn't remember at the time.
http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/mix2.html
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rickd



Joined: 12 Aug 2008
Posts: 15

PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the VERY late reply. I haven't even been online within the past month. I just looked at the link you posted and checked out that plugin package. Man, I tell you, that is true analog sound. With the right setting, you would sware that a pure digital recording was done in all-analog.

Honestly, it wouldn't make sense getting a hardware unit if you have this.

The only thing I hate about it is that the "Shape" knob is a bitch to move at times. Another thing is that you can't buy the individual plug-in. You have to buy the whole pack, which is right at 200 bucks USD. THe T-Racks is about 30-40 bucks cheaper.

However, i'm going to buy this anyway. Thanks for the link.
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