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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 5:49 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Hi!
I am out looking for a Keyboard. Coult some one tip of keyboards that is good for dub. What instruments is in dub?

Like this site alot!!

/Sam
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sat Jan 05, 2002 11:54 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Well don't expect to create dub with a keyboard alone as typically for dubbing a whole studio is needed (mixing desk, effect units,..)

If you want to make the classical type of dub I'd suggest you get a keyboard with good vintage sounds (organ, accoustic piano, clavinet are very typical)

If you are into modern dub it's really up to your personal taste.

It's always good to have several indivual outs in order to have the different keyboard sounds on separate channels on the mixing board.

peace
The Interruptor
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 8:45 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Well don't expect to create dub with a keyboard alone as typically for dubbing a whole studio is needed (mixing desk, effect units,..)

If you want to make the classical type of dub I'd suggest you get a keyboard with good vintage sounds (organ, accoustic piano, clavinet are very typical)


i have to agree with Daniel.
I'd say if you want to get something like more 'universal' to start with, then get yourself one of Roland's XP-series. Again, these are not a really 'toys' so you can expect just seat down and start getting 'dubs' out..he he, sort of speak. But , let's see, if you get something like Roland XP-30, then you get pretty good set of instruments/sounds from accoustic samples through some not-bad electronic instruments, some usefull bass sounds, synth-pads etc.(just GOOD, not great..and I mean I don't think that really there is any GREAT keyboard 'all-in-one' for dub music out there). Well, good thing about Roland's XPs (or rack-versions JVs) is that you can really get good specific sounds by editing patches. The job is somewhat advanced really, not as simple as may look like. But again, to really get the best out of any electronic 'instrument' you need to rely on your external studio set-up mixing desk, eq, better have/use compressor(s), and of course all your 'crazy' effects :). If you just hope to get some good stuff directly from "modern-digital sample-based keyboard/or synth" then I don't know...., to me they all suck if you play/listen 'as is', you know.... So, it comes to the point, that you get a bunch of diffrent keyboards/rack synth etc... and use only couple of sounds from each for some specific situations, and also you apply a bunch of external processing on them ...so there, man, he he..., no easy way out.

best regards,
and good luck shoppin' and getting something you'll love :)

respects,
/Mike Zee
/zee dub lab

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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 8:49 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Hi!!
Thanx for the tips! I allready got a mixingdesk, guitar, bassguitar, a computer and external effects. I dont have so much cash spening on a keyboard. Just want a cheap but with good instruments.
I also got a new cuestion! Should I by a sampler or a drumcomputer. I have a softwearsampler called HAlion for cubase, but I want to use my external effects on my loops!

/Sam
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2002 10:57 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Sam, If you are going to use computer-software-based sequencer for synth, then I think it's better idea to buy some rack-version midi-synth instead keyboard, it will also save you allots of cash. You can actually find pretty cheap used Roland JV-1080 these days, it's good 'general-use' sound-source (if I may call it that way).
Well, having sampler is a big plus. Good samplers are not cheap thou, and it takes time and energy to actually learn how to use sampler, to get good samples/programs, especially if you think of making your own samples. In a long run, sampler is almost 'must have', but you can make pretty good tracks without sampler. You need some drum-synth. Roland JV/XP have some pretty good drum-sets (but again, you'll need to work them out with external processing, just like anything else). It is nice to have separate drum machine or drum-synth thou, but it's extra cash. I think the best way to program drums is using sampler, there you can create your own 'custom' drum-sounds sets, using all available sources: CD-Roms, Sample-CDs, Labraries, you can actually find pretty good drum sounds out on the internet etc...
Again, man, I want to note, that I am advising you to get Roland JV or XP synth, simply because it is maybe the best sounding general sample-based synth outhtere. "General" means it has all sorts of instruments samples/patches. I would not say that it is the best synth for electronic music thou, there are much cooller other machines out, but they are more specific. And, from my own experience (i have JV-1080 for about 6-7 years or so...), if you later add some more synth for your studio, you still may use some sounds/patches from Roland, especially if you learn how to program/edit patches.

regards,
/mike z

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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2002 1:56 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Hi!
What about the Yamaha An1x used by disciples? I found one for 400$.

/Sam
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Fri Jan 25, 2002 3:39 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Sam, I've heard allots of good comments from people who had one. I never had it, so can't say much.
I've found some user comments at h-central: check it out here: www.harmony-central.com/Synth/Data/Yamaha/AN1x-01.html,

the only I can add, if to compare with Roland JV/XP (s) I was talking about is that Rolands are more universal (as variety of sounds/instruments "ready" to use) digital sample-play-back based synthesizers which will let you to create pretty much "complete" arrangemet of the track (in case if it would be the only synth in your studio. If you have only AN1x, then you may need something else...

respects,

/mike zee
zee dub lab

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King Lion



Joined: 03 Feb 2002
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2002 6:45 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Respect Sam,
Get yaself a multi I/O souncard and a midi contoller keyboard. Lot cheaper. Plenty of freeware synths for Cubase pon di net. Dis'll let ya route ya sounds out to the mixer and efx units.
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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 11:49 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Mike, I just bouth the roland jv1080. Could you tip me of some nice sounds.

/Sam
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 8:04 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Hi , Sam, wow, congrats.

First of, tell me if you have any extra ROM-boards there (you know it can have up to 4 boards). If not you still can create allots of vary original patches.
I have three extra boards in: dance, techno and some small "vary" board, which bassically is a sort od demo, well it has couple extra cool sounds. As you see you create patches based on ROM-samples, using up to four 'tones' in combination to create patch.
There are some places on the net where you can d-load patches a SYSEX files. I have to search through, to see what's there, I was not surfing around for some time. I'll post later.

So, tell me if you have any boards in it. If you are not sure, you can open-up (four screws on top of the machine) and see. Or turn it on in patch mood, see what you've got.

i'll come back later tonight.

If you've got used unit, I hope you have manual, which is not great, but it's like minimal info you must have.
also check out this dock: some info on JV1080 , it's just extra manual notes for jv1080 from roland site.

also go here: Roland Sites at Synthzone , there you scrol-down, see sites related to JV/XP synth, some sites have info and free downloadable patches etc. Spend some time surfing around, there is some interesting and usfull stuff out there.

/Mike Zee

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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2002 8:17 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Sam, here the site to check for patches, some midi-files to play (just for fun at least :) ) etc.: XP/JV sound, patches, midi ,

but, Sam, you need to get at least some bassic general knowledge about the machine how the patches are being structured, effects section, etc... , make sure you understand Performance Mood, if you are thinking of sequensing tracks on computer sequencer, then you need to know how to set performance, so you have 16 part, each part set to its own midi chnl (for quick start you may use preset-performance, which called "Analectro", for example. You may have some questions about it. Also important part to learn how to use SysEx for storing/sending patches and performances settings from the machine to computer sequencer and back.

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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2002 5:31 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Mike, what instruments do you use in the jv, for youre dub?
Its very hard to understand thid thing! Haha :)

/Sam
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2002 1:39 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

what instruments from jv do i use for dubs?

hmmmm, no simple answer to this.
in general i always use a few 'sound sources' at the same time when making tracks: mainly used are - jv1080 (again i use allots of sounds from exp. boards (some basses from dance board are my fav., some synth sounds from dance and techno boards etc., dance board also has couple great piano samples/patches and e-pianos etc.), i often use drum sounds and some basses from e-mu orbit 9090 module), and my sampler always is on ...more or less being used in the mix, mostly for drum samples, well, I've got a few fav. samples there for organ, some guitar picks samples etc... it's from akai-libraries..., and well, on some tracks/albums i play guitar and bass (recording to multi-track).
Again, important thing to note, that i always do some external processing of the original source, more or less, well at least some eq-compression always applied, sometimes through other effects... , the point is, I simply look for the sound I like for the mix, I have some fav(s) sound sets to start up, but really I never know what will be at the end..., sometimes I can't find a sound or two for the mix, and just drop the whole idea for the track...this happens often :(
*******

ok, about jv1080.
Sam, I agree that as you start it may really look like way too complicated. I remeber it took me about a year or so to play around the machine before at least I've got sort of "friendly" with it, and I still don't know allts of things you can do with this machine. The archetecture of JV/XP is pretty much "unlimited" in a way you can create and tweek sounds, between 4-wave-form source, all the parameters, plus effects and plus extra 'performance variations' and extra out-puts ... it's just way too many combinations possible.

So as I've said, to get the bast out of the machine, I think you need at least to learn some bassics about how to create simple patch, how to use internal effects and how to store your "creations". Using 'user RAM' is OK, but you may soon ran out of 'space', plus you may want still to keep all the presets and not to re-write. So it is important for you to learn how to save/load patches (and 'performances settings') as SysEx via midi to and from your computer. This way you also can find allots of goodies on the net. There is huge on-line community JV/XP users are sharing patches and all kind of ideas since day one... well 4-5 years or so now.
What you generally need is some sequencer program which can receive and trancemit SysEx messages. I use CakeWalk ProAudio.

well, man, I can go on... really it's not for b-board.

If you have some very specific questions or something you have problem understanding or what ever , drop a note. I may or may not know the answer thou..., but would be happy to try.

Try to do some simple things. Go through the manual, i'd say, do not expect easy quick way if you don't have previous experience with roland(s) ...
Try to make some simple sequences. You need to figure out how to use it as multi-timbral synthesizer with external sequencer, you'll have to use it in 'performance mood', so try to read and understand what are performances, how they are structured and what are your options, how to edit performance, how to save performance/write to internal memory (user RAM) or how to save it via midi SysEx. Remeber, any editing you make in JV (as for patches or performances) you do it in so called 'temporarry memory', it's similar like working on computer-application file, so if you want to keep changes, you need to "save it", if you jump to different program/patch/performance without "saving" it will be gone, or if pover goes off... so you see, before going deeper into how to do sophisticated editing, first learn how to save it ...well, you've got the point...

later,

/m z

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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 7:18 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Hi mike! :)
How do you get your patches in different tracks of your mixing console? Everything I make end up in the same track of my mixer.

/Sam
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:14 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Sam, not much you can do, but some. You have 6 outs, - main out and two op stereo outs OP1 and OP2. OPs are good for 'separating' some sounds from 'internal mix' and having option to mix/process on external mixer/effects.
Quick idea how to.
Turn JV on, press Performance ...you are in performance mood. Value knob - select your performance, or send SysEx of the performance setting from your midi-sequencer (if you do save your performaces settings with your midi-file/sequence as SysEx) (this is the way I do all the time).
OK, so let's say you are in your Performance. Now you wish to have some of your Parts to be assigned to other than Main Mix outs (OP1 or OP2).
Do This.
1. press PARAMETER
2. press EFFECTS
3. press PALETTE
Now you see Parts and AutputAssignSettings.
Press Right/Left to Select Part (from 1 through 16). Turn Value Knob to Set Output: Mix, EFX, Pat(Patch), OP1 and OP2. As you see, if you set OP1 or OP2 the sound of the selected part will be sent through output 1 or 2, and will not be present in the main mix. Also keep in mind, that the sound will not go through internal Effects, and also other mix-parameters setting will not effect it(if there was any specific setting in the performance).
Be sure to check through manuals about "Mix" "EFX" and "Pat" assign, and what does it mean.

well, hope I am talking about what you wish to achive.

what is your set-up? I mean how do you sequence, or do you just play the instrument? Do you use computer-based sequencer. If you do, what software? I mean if you drop some details about what and how do you use, it will be easier to maybe be give you some advice, or on the other hand I may not know your other gear/software well, but maybe some other guys will have better idea around here....

Also, keep in mind, that by 'panning' hard left or right some of the sounds in your midi-sequencer you actually can use OPs like four "mono" outputs for four different sounds all separated out of internal mix and doo everything what's desired on external mixer. This may be well useful for some drum/groove sequencing for example....

later, man,

/Mike Zee
zee dub lab

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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2002 9:51 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

also, man, this have nothing to do w.JV etc. , but BTW, a note related to what you maybe trying to achieve.
My feeling, when making dubs you don't really need to try to "separate" everything in your mix, I mean every sound on its own chnl of mixer. Well, it's good in general when mixing, having complete control. But also, try to use "some on the fly creativity", in general you actually can do some cool dubbing stuff just out of two track-stereo mix and moving sliders/knobs on your mixer (sends/returns/eq etc...) to the rhythm ...and it will be all up to you what and when and how, and on how you connect your effects aroung the mixer etc. Well, just simple'n'primitive example, like, when 'skank' hits...you move send-slider fast up'n'down sending 'skank' to delay. Yes, of course you also send everything else what's in the mix at that time, BUT!!!!, if your send (or return) filtered by EQ (what ever you deside)...then what's going back to the mix as echos/repetitions will be something elde...., plus these 'returning' signals/sounds also can be "used" as send to what ever and processed on the fly in vary ways... well, you see where I'm leading ? :) Again, dubbin' is like playing instuments , but instruments are knobs and sliders ... blah-blah....

later,

/Mike Zee

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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 11:47 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Hi Mike.
I just made a dub song and I want to hear your comments about it. Do you have ICQ?

/Sam
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Sam



Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2002 11:49 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

By the way... my real name is David Paulin :)...
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2002 12:49 am    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

hi, Sam, i mean David :) ,
i'd love to check out what'Ya makin'..., well, comments, i'm not sure if what I may think has much value, really, but I would be happy to blah-blah what ever I may think of your tracks etc...
Now, well, no ICQ, man...
I think if you are going to make your tracks available as mp3s somewhere, then you really need to set-up some account on one of IMD-sites.
Just do it, sooner or later you'll need one anyway, and why not...
As you may know already, mp3.com is most popular site (i think, but I don't think it's the best thou...) and you can have free account there with no limit on uploading your ORIGINAL tracks. the problem with mp3.com is that it may take wery long time to get your tracks approved by their staf, unless you wish to pay 20 bucks/mo for 'premium account'.
I think the best site for the moment is ampcast.com , it's excellent for independent producers, your mp3s are instantly available (no approval delays), also you can release full red-book audio CDs with complete original graphics..., but it's not free service, it's $75/year.
I think if you wish to have some free account to make some mp3s available, no approval delay, then try electronicscene.com ,
there you can have free basic account, but you only can have two mp3 songs available at the time. It's nice site, also has pretty active electronic musicians community, b-board etc...

what else ???, well, there are some other sites, you can set-up account at audiogalaxy.com and actually have 25MB of space to create your own artist site there. Well, as i remember it was some sort of approval time there before your account become active. But then you can use your space pretty much as you wish, I use them for my base-pages.
Also, you can simply set-up some generic free acount, like angelfire.com , gives you allots of space (i think it's like 50MB), but you will have to actually create your site, or at least main page (index.html) and upload it, and you will have to do all html editing , creating links to download your mp3s, zips or what ever, because you may not deep-link download from the server without actually going to your page, so their banners/and pops get to be seen..., well, it's free ..you know, and I think it may be a sort of solution if you wish to make some tracks downloadable, but do not really want to make a big deal out of it, like it is not really release/distribution, in case this is a try-version, or some in-the-work track(s) or something...

well, man, set-up something,

if you have questions bout'mp3 sites etc...ask-away.

best regards,

later, man

/Mike Zee
zee dub lab

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aleph



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Mon Jan 20, 2003 6:08 pm    Post subject: Keyboard Reply with quote

Have any dubhead owned the new "EMU vintage"expand rack?
Seem to have a lot of cool old analog keyboard sounds in it..
I 'd like to know how it sounds.
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