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New Dub Gear - Need help with setup & routing

 
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AK_thunder_dub



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 10:57 am    Post subject: New Dub Gear - Need help with setup & routing Reply with quote

Cheers to All,

I am in need of some assistance in setting up & routing some new gear. My hopes are to set up a sweet dubbing station for experimentation & need some guidance on how to best take advantage of what I have & to know if there are any crucial missing links.

Gear:

Behringer XENYX 2442FX
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/2442FX.aspx
"24-Input 4/2-Bus Mixer with XENYX Mic Preamps, British EQs, 24-Bit Multi-FX Processor and USB/Audio Interface"

Behringer UCA200 audio interface
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/UCA202.aspx
"Ultra-flexible USB audio interface that connects your instruments, mixer, etc. with your computer for recording and playback "

Behringer DIGITAL PRO MIXER DDM4000
http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/DDM4000.aspx
"5-Channel Digital DJ Mixer with Sampler, 4 FX Sections, Dual BPM Counter and MIDI"

Korg KAOSS PAD KP3 Effects Sampler
http://www.korg.com/product.aspx?&pd=269

PC - vista- 2khz - 1gb ram - 200gb hd

DAW - energyxt2.5 "DEMO VERSION" - (came with mixing board)
http://www.energy-xt.com/index.php?id=0101#main=1



What I am wanting to do is use the DAW as a track bank with each track routed to a channel on the analog mixer - with sends & returns to the dj mixer & kaoss pad for additional tweaking & manipulation.

How do I go about routing the tracks in the software to individual tracks on the mixer? Each individual hardware/software manual uses a little bit different language/descriptions on how to hook up with other devices. I could definitely use the help of a low-down/straightforward explanation of how to route all this gear together & get underway with some experimental dubbing mayhem.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, as would any suggestions on missing links from the setup I currently have.

Are there better DAW - software suggestions out there for the setup I am trying to assemble ?

Much appreciation is directed towards all comments, advice, and knowledge.

Cheers
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JahNice



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 256
Location: Dortmund City

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why the heck do you need the DJ mixer? also why do you need the interface? I thought you said the XENYX 2442FX has a built in audio interface! Also Behringer is shit, but if you'just starting out and it works for you, its ok..

I think its difficult to find someone who can explain to you how to exactly use your individual setup! Thats your job.. And since yo know what you need to get, you just have to find out how to get it with experimentation..

Now u just have to get your tracks as individual outputs on the Mixer right?

After you installed and connected the Xenyx, Open DAW and start tryin to send a signal to different outputs of your interface (routed to different channels of mixer). Maybe you need to change some routing options in the DAW or the mixer software, to achieve that..
------> Also i hope your interface has some multiple outputs.... otherwise this aint going to work... meaning, you cant dub if you dont have multi outs from your pc. IMO you need ATLEAST 4 outputs to beginn to dub.

When you have some tracks on the mixer you just need to connect the Kaospad. This you should do with the aux sends of the xenyx. This way each time you turn one of the aux pots on one channel, you send some signal to your effect unit(Kaosspad).. So just take the Aux1 Send (where it says AUX SENDS on the back of the mixer) and connect to the KP.. then the output of the KP to the AUX RETURN
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JahNice



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 256
Location: Dortmund City

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok i checked again and your interface dont have multiple outs......

So here's the plan: Get rid of that DJ mixer, (you dont need it for dub anyway) and the interface, and go get a GOOD interface (this matters because the interface does the Digital<---->Analog convertion of the signal) with 8 mono outs! like this:

http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=505&subcategory=491&product=15189

or this:

http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fireface_uc.php

or some other soundcard or interface with multiple analog outs..

then we can talk about dubbing.. Otherwise I PERSONALLY cant see how this could work

Also try using the search function of this site! Search for example for "DAW" and you will find some knowledge!


Peace Yiannis
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JahNice



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 256
Location: Dortmund City

PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:35 pm    Post subject: Scientific Dub Voodoo Basics Reply with quote

for some basics:

http://www.interruptor.ch/dub_basics.shtml

http://www.interruptor.ch/Php5/dubboard/viewtopic.php?t=1446

free DAW that i have not used but seems pretty cool
http://www.interruptor.ch/Php5/dubboard/viewtopic.php?t=1382

Yiannis
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AK_thunder_dub



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yiannis,

Much appreciation for your assistance. Thanks for taking the time to reply.

I was afraid that the interface might be the problem area. I was told by the salesperson that I would be able to accomplish what I am wanting to do with the one supplied but I was skeptical. I figured it would be fine for mixing on the desk & sending to the computer, but not the other way around which is what needs to happen.

I have been cruising around this site & others for a couple of weeks & I have come to realize how many people feel about behringer products.

The dj mixer was a x-mas present from my wife who didn't really know what I was after so I picked up the mixing board with some extra loot I had. I realize it might not be the best quality, but I figure it should suffice for now while I get started. After all - "it isn't what you got, but how you use it", is what I think I have come across in some other postings.

About the dj mixer - I might hold on to it just to see if I cant integrate it into the mix somehow since there are a few features on there that seem like they could be useful. For now - I will try to figure out how to score a good interface & get better acquainted with the software.

Thanks again for all your help!

I buy a lot of stuff through B&H - do you have any other suggestions for competitively priced gear?

Cheers,
Chad
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JahNice



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 256
Location: Dortmund City

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings Chad!
The Berry stuff are sometimes great for the price and you should surely
stick with what you have and use it. Especially because you re just
starting out and just want to experiment. I also use an analog/digital
converter(!) for my outputs as i have a very limited budget and am happy
with it!!! I have used some other behringer stuff like some preamps and
some pedals, but i got rid of them quickly as they were not worth being
used IMO.

About the DJ mixer you could also use it for different tasks. The Sampling
functions for example could be very useful for adding live special
effects,like bleeps or sirens and other sounds to your dub. you could also
use it as an effect unit, sendiing signal through the aux sends of the
mixing desk to the mixer adding FX and then returning to the desk. Then
u could plug a mic in the mixer, add lots of delay/reverb and do some
kind of wicked shouts on your dubs or whatever..I have to admit that you
can do many many tricks with that thing, although i would have never got
the idea to buy it for dub..

I sugest for you to start dubbing immediately. you can have some good
experiences even with only two outputs ...wait...I did not think of this
possibility: Maybe you can also try to use both usb interface you got
simultaneously, the one that came with the mixing desk and the one you
bought in addition. If that is possible you would have 4 mono outs!!! That
ok for staring to dub!

I have bought gear in secondhand shops, from ads and from ebay many
times, some really cheap, some not so cheap.. The good thing with ebay
is you can find all kind of second hand gear even vintage stuff from all
over the world!

About the software i would recommend to you, to check out other DAWs
also, as i am not confident that the one that came with the mixer can do
the job.. But i dont know for shure so you should check it out anyway! I
use cubase sx 2 (its a old version, the version of today is cubase 5) ,
which i bought on ebay for 25€. Its perfect for my dub!


Peace Yiannis
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AK_thunder_dub



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yiannis,

Thanks for all the killer input. Your right on track with what I thought I might be able to use the dj mixer for.

I've been checking out interface options & checked out the links you provided as well. I'm diggin on the E-MU 1616M since it is priced a little better than the RME Fireface. I've cruised ebay a bit to see what's out there but am a little hesitant to get something through ebay without knowing for sure it is compatible with my PC. For instance, right now, there are no Firewire ins so I will have to stick with USB or go the PCI route. I have bought all kinds of 16mm and Super 8mm cameras through ebay but I have yet to try out any second hand audio gear.

I am noticing all kinds of claims for channel quantities (16,24,etc) but what I am getting out of this so far is that the most important thing is having as many analog outs as possible (Cool. Now, say I want to get this shit started asap & I score an interface with eight outs - later, I can daisy chain another interface to that to boost it up to 16, right?

8 outs is probably max for the 200 - 500 price range, right?

I found this on ebay & have asked the seller for more info on whether or not it operates & if the connections are included or what. The pic sucks so I am a bit leery of going through with anything until I know more.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120519905696&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

I am eager to roll up the sleeves & get to tweakin' some knobs - thanks again for all the heads up & insight.

Cheers,
Chad
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AK_thunder_dub



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yiannis,

Oh - I forgot to mention.
I swung by your sites - nice dub work man.

Cheers
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JahNice



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 256
Location: Dortmund City

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The E-Mu is really really fine in my opinion.. and the greatest thing is that
it is expandable!!! I myself own only the small pci version called 1212m.
It only has 2 outs, but it also has a digital ADAT out, from which i can get
8 aditional ins and outs with a D/A Converter. The same thing goes about
the 1616 or 1616m: you can afterwards buy a D/A Converter that will
give you 8 more outs... And you dont need an extra firewire card, it has a
pci card which connects to the microdock breakoutbox via something that
looks like firewire..

You may have seen that there are two versions of the E-mu. The one is
called 1616 and the othere one 1616M! The difference is that the 1616M
has got the mastering grade converters, that were also used in the much
more expensive ProTools systems of the time! The other difference is
100$ in the price!


For Best price and quality you could go for the E-mu 1212m and buy the
1616m microdock expander here:

http://cgi.ebay.com/E-MU-1616M-MicroDock-M-Audio-MIDI-Interface-Expander_W0QQitemZ300381167567QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item45f01cdfcf

Thats what i am planning to do to expand my setup..

About the motu it is very good from what i know,but i have never used
one yet! All i know is that it also can be expanded with a ADAT converter
like the EMU, BUT it needs FireWire. Maybe Ocoughi aka Anti Bypass can
help out here! I think he uses one of those! He is a fellow dubhead from
france with great skills and long time experience! check him out here:

http://cluster1.reggaedubwise.com/Anti_Bypass/
http://www.dubark.com/Anti_Bypass/
http://www.myspace.com/ocoughi

I'll send him a pm.

Its not about as many outs as possible! Believe me 8 outs is what i have
and i think its enough. Also the more outpits you have, the more easy it is
to loose track of what you want to do.. Meaning also, if you have to many
channels you cant move all faders simultaneously, and it becomes much
more difficult to control the dub.. With some years of experience that will
change offcourse but for now 8 channels is great! Also you would
eventually need a bigger mixing desk if you had more outs....


Wow man Super 8mm footage goes very well with dub you know.. I
bought one also, but it dont work..

Laterz Yiannis
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ocoughi



Joined: 26 Feb 2009
Posts: 118
Location: lyon/france

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Greetings,
Yiannis explained it all very well...
all i can say is that i effectively had a motu828mk2; the mine is with firewire so it can be problematic for you but there is some versions of this soundcard with usb2 (the mk3 i think...).
the sound must be quite as good as the Emu and RME , i've heard that RME has better highend freqs, but this is maybe true if you have very good monitors. the 828 is the first soundcard i buyed and i still have it and all is working fine! she travels a lot cause my brother uses to take it for his live shows, she knows the rain,the dust,the cold and the smoke and she's still alive!
i don't know about others brands but she is sold for 8 analog outputs but in fact she has 10 (main out 1/2 and 8 outputs more); same thing for inputs (2 mics inputs and 8 line inputs).
you can link it with another 828 with the second firewire she has...
Manu

_________________
http://soundcloud.com/anti-bypass
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AK_thunder_dub



Joined: 18 Jan 2010
Posts: 12
Location: Alaska

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yiannis & Manu,

Big thanks for all the knowledge!

Super 8mm + Dub is what I'm talkin' about. some serious auio/visual attack shit!

I hope I didn't jump the gun. I scored an interface off ebay last night - a bit impatient I guess.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&&item=260536767949&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1120

Hopefully I didn't muck things up & got the wrong gear.

I started tweakin some tracks last night.

2 tracks out of the DAW - 2 channels
2 samples in the dj mixer -1 channel
4 samples on the kaoss pad - 1 channel

4 channels & more yet to come.

Cheers,
Chad
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JahNice



Joined: 17 Jan 2008
Posts: 256
Location: Dortmund City

PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you definately found what you were looking for. The Echo Layla
should do the job and its cheap for what it supposed to do!! Some people
seem to really like the sound of these..

Here some opinions:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/low-end-theory/19618-echo-layla-compared-mbox-828mkii.html

http://forum.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=441352&sid=5e6670b1680ae76e99b90b1eebe0a706

Yes, keep experimenting!
Dub it, nah scrub it

Peace Yiannis
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