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Analog Record Machine wanted
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ben



Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2002 10:56 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

hello,
I want to buy a analog record machine with effects (echo, delay, reverb...) but I don't know exactly wich one. However, I'm sure to want an analog one.
Can someone light my way ?

Irie !
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 1:27 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

If you really want one single recording machine including all the effects i can only think about digital workstations like the Roland VS-1824CD which can be used to record and mix including effects like echo, delay, reverb.
For dubbing however it is usually better to have the effects separately as this brings more flexibility and it's easyer to tweak them during mixdown.

Thinking of analog devices it's just stage mixers with built in spring reverb that come to my mind - but you cannot record with this alone - you need a separate multi track recording machine (reel to reel or 4-track cassette based) and more effect units.
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:00 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

ben, I was actually a bit confused by your question.
What do you mean "analog record machine with effects". Interruptor kind of stretched the idea for you here.
My guess was that you want some analog recorder, which is reel to reel or cassette. I don't know any w/effects. there're so-called porta-studios cassette-multi-track recorders with builtin some basis mixer. I would not recommend them. If you are really 'analog-head' then think of getting some older/used 4 or 8-track reel2reel, you can find some Teac/Tascams on e-bay (not really cheap thou). But again, you still need to have also some analog mixer and all your effects will be some extra boxes (especially if you want to use only analog effects), but 99% of all effect processors out there are actually digital.
I know there are some analog mixer-boards outthere now with built-in effects (but again, these built-in effects are DSP (digital). Mackie makes so called FX-series boards, checkout www.mackie.com, get there into products/mixers.... Also I believe behringer got some small boards w/digital efx-builtin... Also keep in mind, that having built-in effects would not do really good for dub production, just what Interruptor said, it is always better to have them as separate boxes, so you can route them around you board in vary ways.

well, man, if you be around back, post-up if you have any specific questions....

later,
respects,

/Mike Zee
zee dub lab

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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2002 3:04 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

here's direct link to Mackie CFX series Mixsers

later,
/m z

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ben



Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 11:28 am    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

Mike & Interruptor,

Thank you much for advice me so well.
I apreciate your care for me.

Sorry I'm french and I try to make the others understand me with the 3 english words I know !

I would want to ask you a question about the spring reverbs.

I want an analog one and I heard about the new "Demeter RV-1".

I don't know if it's the good one for me.
It's a little bit expensive (about 700$).

But may be you can suggest me an other one.

Thank you by advance.

Ben, the novice.
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Looter



Joined: 13 Mar 2001
Posts: 111
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 5:16 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

I have a Furman RV-1 spring reverb, I havent seen the Demeter berfore. I got mine for $75 but I've seen then go for half of that price. They have a very nice sounding sweepable eq built in and dry/wet controls.

If you want an all in one, analog recording machine with a REAL mixer (sorry, no built in effects), I suggest the tascam 246 portastudio. If you look at the portastudios tascam makes today, the mixer sections look like toys. But, in the mid-80s when they developed the first generation of portastudios (144, 244 & 246) they had mixers with real faders.

I've had my 246 for 3 years now and I wouldn't trade it for any other 4-track. It's got a 4-buss, 6-channel mixer w/ sweepable EQ. I love it.

If you want 8-track analog all-in-one, get a tascam 388. It's the only machine of it's kind with a mixer and reel recorder in the same package. Or, there's the 488 cassette 8-track.

If you're just starting out and you want a basic analog studio setup, I'd recommend any of these.
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 6:20 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

Demeter RV-1 here Demeter RV-1,
some notes from Demeter users: here Demeter RV-1 feedback,
The site is here: Demeteramps.com
*****
more feedback on FurmanRV1: here Furman RV-1

*******
Ben, be sure to read posts about reverb/spring(s) issues here: Effects and Sound Manipulation, some usefull info there.

personally, I think it's absolute MADNESS to by Spring for $700 for dub production. I'd rather get get 10-20 different junkey ones and use them in a mad way... :), but I am not sure about it. If demeter is soooooo great, and you really just want to use state'of'the'art equipment, and you've got a big 'rubber pocket full of cash', then go for it :)
I know guys, buying old amp's springs for 5 bucks and use them very successfuly.
Be sure at least to check e-bay, at least for prices and variety available. Enter 'spring reverb' into search and click 'search'. Well, buying from a e-bay maybe a tricky, especially buying real old/used stuff, you never really know.

******

Ben, I've got your e-mail, so am sort of replying here, if you have more questions, e-mail me, or better yet just post here, Guys here may know much more about dub-related equipment etc...

best regards,

respects,

Mike Zee
zee dub lab

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ben



Joined: 05 Mar 2002
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 07, 2002 10:27 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

Hello evrybody,

Looter, thanks, I'm gonna check the references you told me.

Mike, respect for ebay !
I didn't hear about this nice dealing place.

I think I'm gonna find what I wish ...

Thanks for guide my way people

Ben
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Dave Cook



Joined: 31 Jul 2002
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 8:50 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

Hi all -
I found this place via a Google search. I have a TASCAM 246 portastudio for sale. I got it in 1987. It has had little use...maybe 120 hours +/-.
What is a fair price for such a thing?

Dave C
scripturerelease@sunflower.com
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Looter



Joined: 13 Mar 2001
Posts: 111
Location: US

PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2002 11:59 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

Check ebay, it varies. I paid what you would pay for a new "top of the line" tascam portastudio today for the 246 i bought a few years ago. But mine was a demo with no real recording time on it. What did you pay for yours in '87? $2k?
:)

I would agree that most portastudios are not suitable for dub-style mixing but the 246 has 6 very useful channels of mixer. Its the only portastudio to fool the experts at the recording magazines. They swore material recorded on one was actually done in a pro studio.

I decided to start with a portastudio because the design simplifies the whole patching process down to flipping some switches and pressing buttons. It is also portable, this is good because I do not have a studio w/ a piano or a good space for recording the drum kit. Did i mention the media is cheap and available almost everywhere? And it's compatiable with most other cassette 4-tracks.

I would really like a 388, they are quite the machine. They are 80 some pounds so not quite as portable. But a very cool design, similar to the 246 but on a larger scale. Both machines are from the same era so that makes sense, i guess.


Kevin
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Chad Contra



Joined: 14 Nov 2002
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Nov 14, 2002 6:23 am    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

I've got a 388 I'm looking to unload.

Tracks 2-6 work well with a bit of crosstalk.

Track 1 has terminal wow and flutter.

Track 8 just won't record.

Most of these problems stem from a reel table that's off allignment somehow. Someone with more experience and time than I could probably fix it.

I'd like to get about $450 for it, but I'm flexible.

Gimme some shouts at

contra@mixmail.com

Cool. Peace.

Chad
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bobby keel



Joined: 25 Dec 2002
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2002 7:34 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

i recieved a tascam 246 for christmas but it has no manual. anyone who can help me would truly be blessed.
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Jan 01, 2003 5:26 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

from the tascam history:
1986 - The TASCAM 246 replaced the 244. It allowed the recording of all four channels at once, and had six inputs instead of just four. It also allowed the option of running the cassette at double speed or at the normal speed of 1 7/8 IPS.

here are links to people who claim they sell a manual:
link1
link2 (tascam 244)

try to find more yourself using a search engine (i.e. google.com)

greetings
the interruptor
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Ben Nagari



Joined: 07 Nov 2002
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 6:47 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

I have gone through the slow, and costly upgrades from sound on sound reel to reel, 244, reel to reel 8 track, and now I use just this box I'm typing into. With vst/dxi I can can have all the effects and instruments I need. The quality is excellent compared to the cassette based recorders.
As for price I would have thought a secound hand multi track would be dearer than a suitable sound card and computer.
Apart from a spring reverb, I cannot see the benefit of using 'real' hardware as apposed to virtual.
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KoCha



Joined: 25 Jan 2002
Posts: 259
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 7:46 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

A part of the warmest of sound come from the support... it's because some people love analogu tape.

But with some magic box and settings you can change that on recording...

KoCha

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aleph



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Tue Jan 07, 2003 11:35 pm    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

a difference between analog/digit :
i cannot go after 0db Whith digital
i go at 0db,+1db,+2db.... with analog and the sound
color change every time at the recorder the mix desk ,and especially with analog effect like valve EQ/Compression , PHASER
For me IT CAN'T BE EMULALTED ,engeeneers would
better foget this and experiment digit effect that
cannot be done with analog;
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:17 am    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

engeeneers would
better foget this and experiment digit effect that
cannot be done with analog


yeah, it's waist of resources and at the end ours(consummer's, producer's) time and money. Companies don't care, however, as long as it is cheap to make and they can sell something quickly enough before the user realize that it is a "joke". For example, I have and used for sometime Opcode's Vocode and Filer Fusion software - ...thought it's a cool thing. Grrrrrrrrrrrrr - crap and waist of time and money.

I actually wish some major (like tascam) company get back to making some analog reel-to-reel multi-track machines again for home-studios, and I don't mean those cassette portas-junk (which are actually useful in someway)....

/Mike Zee

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ZEE DUB LAB
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aleph



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:23 am    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

I'm often agree whith you mike
It is like the real life(ana.)and virtual life(digit)
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alph



Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:29 am    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

let the "proffessinnal" beleive in digital
and they 'll sell their old tascam ,studer,revox...
these machines seems to be built "for hundred years
ah ah ah ah ah ah ah ahahahahaha"
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aleph



Joined: 06 Jan 2003
Posts: 72

PostPosted: Wed Jan 08, 2003 3:38 am    Post subject: Analog Record Machine wanted Reply with quote

I didn t tell you i owned a 3m 16track (2inch) recorder for only 1300euro in very good condition
perhaps because the french engeeners don t beleive
in tape recorder, they like very very clean sounds
but they forgot that life is dirty and not perfect
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