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KoCha
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Post by KoCha » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:03 am

Hi all, <BR> <BR>If you use computer for compose, i'm interested in which technich do you use ?? <BR> <BR>Personnaly i compose with soundfont &#43; tracker in Buzz a sequancer-tracker-sampler-all around software. <BR> <BR>Any one use MIDI ? how ? <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kocha.fr.st" TARGET="_top">KoCha</A> <BR>Dub Master Beginner
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Post by interruptor » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:37 am

i use the sequencer software logic audio silver which i am very comfortable with. in contrast to buzz you have to pay for it but it's still quite affordable.

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Post by KoCha » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:44 am

I have check some print screen, he looks very fine, it's too all-around sample, tracker,effect,... <BR> <BR>Do you do all your mix with, or juste the dubplate and after your process external ? <BR>I have read you have good hardware so i think it's just for dubplate. <BR> <BR>And how you record your final mix ? computer too ? which soft ? <BR> <BR>Thx <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kocha.fr.st" TARGET="_top">KoCha</A>
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Post by interruptor » Fri Jun 28, 2002 11:35 am

i use logic audio as midi sequencer to trigger my external sampler &#40;E-mu&#41; and for harddisk recording. for mixing of all tracks &#40;hard disk recording &#43; external sampler &#43; external effect units&#41; i have two special dsp based pc sound cards from creamware called luna and pulsar. these have their own software for mixing, effects and synthesizer sounds. the trick here is that the mixing is done on these special soundcards and not on the main processor of the pc. this way the sequencer can run simultaneously. <BR>in fact i have no separate hardware mixer. all mixing is done on the computer screen. of course it would be completely impossible to create dynamic dub mixes with the mouse in real time. but each fader movement can be recorded and edited via the sequencer, and this is what i am doing extensively. this way the mixer becomes a "midi instrument" like any keyboard or sampler. <BR>so while traditionally dub is created as a "live mixing performance", during final mix down i am just sitting there and watching the pc move the virtual faders..

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Post by KoCha » Fri Jun 28, 2002 12:50 pm

thx for speed of your answer Interruptor!! <BR> <BR>Yeah a fantastic automatic studio!! using external effect with MIDI aux send/recv... hard work and setting up i think!! <BR>The mixing must be very long.. programm every movement on desk ! <BR> <BR>I just use computer to make my track but all mix is doing computer off... since yesterday!! i have bought an external Behringer dsp Virtualizer &#40;i have too a mixer/recorder 8track&#41; but before i use my computer for effect. And now i can record to hardisk directly yes!!! <BR> <BR>One question : The aux send/recv is make internally on the sound card ?? <BR> <BR> <BR>Swiss Dub Vibes Powa!!! <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kocha.fr.st" TARGET="_top">KoCha</A>
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Post by Mike Zee » Fri Jun 28, 2002 9:25 pm

Hi guys, <BR> <BR>in my case: <BR> <BR>I use Cakewalk ProAudio since day 'one', and you know how it is, when you get used to some program and get very fast moving around... then you never want to use anything else. So, Cakewalk is my main 'computer based production tool', sort of speak. <BR>So I sequence all midi-parts in Cakewalk. As "composing" goes, it's always a combination of 'piano-roll sequencing/editin', playing midi-synth/recording midi to sequencer and then editing it &#40;if needed&#41;, and also arranging midi-clips around when actually structuring the "composition". <BR>My computer 'drives' 8-midi-port interface, but I mostly use about 3 or 4 synth at once, most often it's a combo of JV-1080, AKAIS3000XL-sampler and I often use some drums from Emu-ORBIT ... <BR>Well, that's for midi-synth and drums &#40;if I program them&#41;, and also some extra samples &#40;what ever it may be&#41; from sampler. <BR>Sometimes I have some audio-clips/parts recorded into Cakewalk in combination with midi, but if I get to some more complicated perfomance to record, like if I make something where I play bass, guitars &#40;sometimes more then one part/track of each&#41;, then I use AKAI-DR4s as audio-recording machines, instead of recording parts to computer's hard disc, so in this case, I make DR-4s master&#40;s&#41;, which drive Computer &#40;Cakewalk&#41; to sync audio and all midi-sequences. <BR>Well, as mixing goes..heh heh heh..., guys, I am kinda laughing, because, everytime I am trying to think about mixing, regarding to "do I have some 'systematic methid' of mixing' question, and I never really can tell. Because it's always kind of diffrent from project to project. <BR>You know, when you sequence some midi-instruments/parts, and you "apply" some volume/pan events on midi-tracks - it is a part of sequencing, but it is also clearly a part of mixing. So you can start already there, in a sense... <BR>But, well, I'd say the MAIN BODY of mixing in my situation falls onto analog mixing desk, there I've got couple of effect-processors, compressors, eq... and as DUB-ing goes: I often do at least two 'pass-through', making like first mixdown, then second and each pass I do 'dubbing on the fly', well, you know you only have two hands. I know allot can be done using digital-mixing, but then I'll lose all THE FUN part. Moving faders and knobs in real time without "undo"-option is the most SEXY part of the process to me, so if I screw things up, then I just do another "take", it's like performance. And you know, when you get something good... it sort of makes you feel good, because it is something which can not be done again, like one of a kind instrument playing. Well, the downside of it, maybe, is that WHO CARES, I mean, listener does not really care how things get done. <BR>So it's sort of just for own-pleasure.. <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR>ok, I can go-on-n-on, post getting too long, <BR> <BR>best regards, n'respects <BR> <BR>/Mike Zee

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Post by interruptor » Mon Jul 01, 2002 8:53 am

Kocha: <BR>about your question "The aux send/recv is make internally on the sound card ??" <BR> <BR>with my current setup of sound cards i have 12 analog inputs and 12 analog outputs. these can be configured freely, so i use some as effect sends and some as effect returns for external effects. <BR>but for the effects calculated inside the sound cards i don't need these of course.

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Post by pete » Mon Jul 01, 2002 5:26 pm

I use Sonar 2 for sequencing and Soundforge 4.5 for sound editing....two great programs.

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Post by KoCha » Wed Jul 03, 2002 11:01 am

Thx All for your respond and specially Mike Zee for the description, it's a fantastic studio... i have see the picture on your web site !!! <BR> <BR>To all : Do you compose with synth or with sampled sound ? <BR> <BR>Jah Bless <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kocha.fr.st/" TARGET="_top">KoCha</A>
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Post by crazy batshit » Wed Jul 03, 2002 12:38 pm

I use Ableton Live for my dubs: very intuitive and fast. For additional sweetening I move the tracks to Logic, but only occasionally. You can check out the Live demo at the ableton site: www.ableton.com. My primary sound source is a knackered Emulator I and Linn drum. While both have MIDI I don't use preferring to play live; I guess I'm too lazy to sequence. Ableton Live gives me the best of both worlds: a computer studio where the inspiration isn't lost in the perspiration of having to use the computer. ;-&#41;

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Post by Mike Zee » Thu Jul 04, 2002 7:06 am

KoCha, the picture of my studio is pretty old , I don't know ..like 3-4 years old. actually it was the moment when I just finished setting up the room dedicated to music production and other computer-based stuff, like graphics etc..., before I had to share space. So, yeah, it was a sort of happy moment for me <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;">, I've build actually allots of stuff, the mixer-table/rack, speakers-stands, vary other stuff... all from cheap 2x4 and 4x4 ..., just finished it, so it looks maby like some sort of fancy studio... really it's just a basement space, turned into recording-room. Acoustics in that room is absolutely terrible. i can't really use speaker-monitors for mixing. near-field sort of works, but I still most of the time using AKG-headphones. <BR>Also all my gear are old and really not up to "speed", especially on computer-based side. <BR>I am seating on Windows95, and very slow computer 120-pentium and I have 16Megs RAM.. heh heh heh. The other computer is actually dieing on me. <BR>The reason I am not moving from W95 is that my 8-port midi-interface is OPCODE MusicQuest &#42;port/SE, and it's a great interface, the only problem is that the producer is DEAD, I think Gibson is in charge of Opcode products now, but what ever is going on, there is NO drivers available for W98 or anything above, and it does not look like ever will be...., so there ..heh heh. <BR>So I am running CakwalkProAudio version 6.0 &#40;actually does everuthing I need &#41; , well I also use SoundForge4.5 ... for vary audio-editing, especially if I need some sample-editing works done etc... <BR>&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42; <BR>Now, when you are asking about "composing" I am not really sure what do you mean. <BR>I mean, I understend composing as "writing music" in a tradidional sense. So to "write music". or "to compose" you don't really need anything, I mean you don't really need any synth, or sampler or what ever.... I can understand in a sense, that the SEQUENSER &#40;especially advanced computer-based sequencer&#41; can be actually used a 'composing tool'. But then again, you use it to put notes in order, sort of speak, regardless of what synth, or digital sampler or what ever later the composition will be played on... <BR>Speaking of BEING TOO LAZY to sequence. Yeah! this is actually a good point. I've heard many times from vary musicians, who sometimes say, that it is just TOO EASY to make music nowdays with all these 'sequencers' available... well, the reality is, that it's actually much easier to play music than to sequence it, well, of course if you can play any instrument. <BR>The coollest thing with midi-sequencer is however that if you are piano-keyboard player, then it's just so great to play midi-keyboard/piano/controller in real time and record as midi to computer sequenser, and then you have option to do editing of every note you've played. <BR>This is actually how I compose most of music, especially when it come to leads, melody etc.... I just play through something, sometimes I have something in my mind, sometimes I just improvise, and again you can be very relaxed, not warring much about missing/messing couple notes here and there, because you can always easylly fix it later. <BR>Well, that's the way it is with midi-synth/sample-playback-syth/samplers. <BR>But when it comes to guitars and bass, there you just gottar play it right. Guitars are tough for me... gotta have a good tuned-ear and right attitude and all that. Can't do it in summer time... it's just too hot <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>In my case the most time&#40;ly&#41; process is to sequence drumes. If I had real-drum-kit setup and could play it well... but this is not an option. It's too loud, and I really never could play acoustic drums well. I used to have complete ROLAND-electronic drums kit, which is much easier to play than real drum-kit, but the sounds are really suck, and after some time I figured that I can sequence better drum-tracks than I play on midi-trigger-based kit. It just takes time to sequence, and then to tweak sounds on mixing-desk to get 'samples together'. <BR>&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42; <BR>btw, this is a bit off the topic, but just to note here, <BR>after some time time, I am really getting that feeling, that the most important "part" of the production set-up is MIXER/MIXING DESK, and knowing your mixer and using it wisely/or using it effectively, or to get most out of it. <BR> <BR>ok, guys, sorry for long post again, <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR> <BR>i'll check in back some time, <BR> <BR>later, <BR> <BR>respects, <BR> <BR>/Mike Zee

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Post by KoCha » Tue Jul 09, 2002 9:35 pm

Yeah i like long post Mike ;-&#41; <BR> <BR>Since how many times do you make music for get a studio like this ? <BR>You do pro record ??? <BR> <BR>JV-1080, AKAIS3000XL, Emu-ORBIT... hardware that i dreaming for... lol! <BR> <BR>Just one things i didn't understand : You can set your own sample on your Roland Drum Kit / or / you listen to your record with orginal sound and secquance with sample /or/ you have midi output on the Virtual Drum Kit ?? <BR> <BR>Thx for all <BR> <BR>Forever dubbing.... <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kocha.fr.st" TARGET="_top">KoCha</A>
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Post by Mike Zee » Wed Jul 10, 2002 2:43 am

to get studio and stuff I had to jump around like a mad monkey <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> he heh. when I was younger and then teach privately kids to skate, dance, performe etc.... I used to make more cash, but had no time to make music. <BR> <BR>Making music does not pay, you know.... <BR> <BR>Do I do "pro record"? I'm not sure about your question. If you mean: Do I produce professionally for other artists/performers/musicians, - the answer is NO, I don't. I did and still do some audio-recording/editing works for vary local events, like sport competitions, ice exhibitions etc...., this is not really like full time job, just when ever events happends and people who know me ask me to do something. <BR>My studio is just my personal "dedicated hobby" , sort of to name it, I guess. I sell my own production very little, not as a business , really... <BR> <BR>&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42;&#42; <BR>about electronic drum kit. <BR>I had so called Roland's Stage Set with eight pads, bass-d-kik trigger/pedal and its drum-module &#40;Roland TD-7&#41;. <BR>this one: <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... 94/286.gif" ALT="TD-7"> <BR>KoCha, the idea here is: each pad is a trigger. Actually it can trigger the whole variety of modules. I even could trigger some old french-made analog drum synth, I don't remember the brand name, I was borrowing it from a friend. <BR>So the module is generally sample-playback based digital synthezer, just like any other, but dedicated to drums, and so it has some specifics. <BR>It has line of inputs frof trigger/pads and hi-hat pedal controller. Also it has midi-INPUT, so you can actually sequence it just like any other midi-synthesiser. Also it has midi-output, so while you play the kit, you can "record your performance" as midi-sequence to external sequencer &#40;like computer-based sequencer for example&#41;, or you can simply play it and record what ever you play as audio to your recording device, like multi-track. DK-7 by the way has also some extra individual audio-outs, so you can "split" some of your drums to different recording track. Well it also have some basic internal digital effects, like reverb/chrus etc.... <BR>OK, this kit is a really sophisticated "creation", not to mention latest roland's V-Drums, which are really cool by the way... <BR>But as I've said before, just out of practical experience, since the whole thig is sample-play back based system, then you can do all the things what you do with this kit without the kit ...heh heh heh. No really. Well, if you have some sequensing/sampling/programming skils you'll be able to make same good drum tracks without having this drum-set. <BR>One thing I have to stress thou: if you play this drums for some time it will give you very good knowlege about how drummer plays, the feel of it, you'll know what drummer will never do etc etc... this experience will help you to avoid some funny stuff which many electronic-music producers do, trying to sort of 'impress listener' with amount of sounds'per'second ...heh heh,.... <BR>well, if you have some drumming experience, then you don't need this , dohhhh ;&#41; <BR>Also, the samples/sounds are pretty crappy to my ears, I mean, really, this rolands sound-sets are 80% or so useless. There are some basic sample-sets there which are ok, but for some basic use, and they are maybe ok for pop/rock applications &#40;I am not even sure about that&#41;... <BR>So, Yes, You can play/trigger any other simmilar drum-module &#40;Yamaha, E-MU, Alesis some other&#41; which has trigger-inputs, or you can take midi-output from module and connect to any midi-synthesiser/sampler input and play any sound/sample you've got. But again, you don't need this set to play your sampler. <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":&#41;"> <BR>The thing is useful on stage for sure, especially in combination with real acoustic drum kit and what ever drummer may have... Remember PULS PinkFloyd Show??? he heh... well, many bands using this stuff, it's fun also ;&#41; <BR> <BR>ok, <BR>I'll be around <BR> <BR>later <BR> <BR>respects, <BR> <BR>/Mike Zee

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Post by KoCha » Wed Jul 10, 2002 6:53 am

It's too for me a hobby &#40;my life is work/skate/music/sleep lol&#41;, you have understand what i want to say with "pro rec" and it's good that you don't do this ;-&#41; <BR> <BR>About V-Drum thanx for all info, i think it's can be useful too if don't now anyting to drum. <BR>You can play with only two hands and foots... but with a secquancer you have multi hands and foots!! <BR>I have a friend that do drum and he have learning me what is impossible to do with a drum. Very Very userful for secquencing <BR> <BR>MIDI out <BR>I saw that on the stage before a midi sequancer with acoustic drum ;-&#41; funny! <BR> <BR>see you, <BR> <BR><A HREF="http://www.kocha.fr.st" TARGET="_top">KoCha</A>
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Post by Klaus5 » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:29 pm

This is a copy/paste from another thread. I think its more relevant here though!

I use ableton live to create tracks using VSTIs, other than guitar, which i record straight into live. Shed loads of VST and VSTIs are used.

Im not sure if this can be done with other programs, but in live you can program keys on the keyboard to adjust track faders, sends, loops etc. So if you cant afford any midi hardware (which i cant currently) you can get as close as its possible to get to hands-on live dubbing without a mixer.

Example of how i program it:

Z key toggle min/max volume of track one (hats for example)
A key to enable/disable send a (eg reverb)
Q key to enable/disable send b (eg delay)

X key min/max vol of track 2 (eg snare)
S key send a
W key send b

P key to trigger siren


see what i mean? the disadvantage is that you can only toggle tracks voume, so it can sounds a bit jumpy if the timing isnt 100% accurate, but you can of course fade in/out slowly using the mouse to control the faders.

And as your bringing in and out the tracks and activating sends and what not, live can record it as a sequence, which can then be edited if you want, so you get the best of both words.

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Post by Lyonhard » Fri Sep 17, 2010 7:12 am

Klaus5 wrote:This is a copy/paste from another thread. I think its more relevant here though!

I use ableton live to create tracks using VSTIs, other than guitar, which i record straight into live. Shed loads of VST and VSTIs are used.

Im not sure if this can be done with other programs, but in live you can program keys on the keyboard to adjust track faders, sends, loops etc. So if you cant afford any midi hardware (which i cant currently) you can get as close as its possible to get to hands-on live dubbing without a mixer.

Example of how i program it:

Z key toggle min/max volume of track one (hats for example)
A key to enable/disable send a (eg reverb)
Q key to enable/disable send b (eg delay)

X key min/max vol of track 2 (eg snare)
S key send a
W key send b

P key to trigger siren


see what i mean? the disadvantage is that you can only toggle tracks voume, so it can sounds a bit jumpy if the timing isnt 100% accurate, but you can of course fade in/out slowly using the mouse to control the faders.

And as your bringing in and out the tracks and activating sends and what not, live can record it as a sequence, which can then be edited if you want, so you get the best of both words.
Really interesting! I should try this with my audio editor, Reaper :D, i've never tried to do a "live" dub session, i usually work piece by piece.
Only thing is these:
And as your bringing in and out the tracks and activating sends and what not, live can record it as a sequence, which can then be edited if you want, so you get the best of both words.
Can you please explain me in poor words what does this mean?[/quote]

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Post by Neil C » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:27 pm

Lyonhard wrote:
And as your bringing in and out the tracks and activating sends and what not, live can record it as a sequence, which can then be edited if you want, so you get the best of both words.
Can you please explain me in poor words what does this mean?
I think he means that in Live you can 'record' when you mute or unmute a track and activate sends or whatever. It's called automation.
Reaper will have automation, but I don't know if you can automate mutes and things like that or not.

You can either program automation in, or you can use it to record what you do with the DAW controls or software instrument or effect controls as your track plays back.
In other words you can play your mix and while it plays you can fiddle with a control and then when you stop and play again what you did with that control has been remembered and it will happen without you having to touch the control.

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Post by Lyonhard » Sat Sep 18, 2010 8:33 am

Neil C wrote: Can you please explain me in poor words what does this mean?
I think he means that in Live you can 'record' when you mute or unmute a track and activate sends or whatever. It's called automation.
Reaper will have automation, but I don't know if you can automate mutes and things like that or not.

You can either program automation in, or you can use it to record what you do with the DAW controls or software instrument or effect controls as your track plays back.
In other words you can play your mix and while it plays you can fiddle with a control and then when you stop and play again what you did with that control has been remembered and it will happen without you having to touch the control.[/quote]

Thanks for explaining me how it works. I'll make some try with reaper :)

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