I want to dub. How to start?

ster · Post by **ster** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:35 am

i`m trying to find out if it`s going to be possible for me to start make my own dub (reggae dub). Where can i buy the sort of equipment required to do it. Is it possible to make a dub without actually recording the instruments from scratch myself, like from an old song or something like that. i don`t fully understand the process of multitrack recording, which is why i ask that. Also, how do they make that "boooooooooooop!" kind of feedback sound in dub. thats a cool sound effect. My favorite has got to be scientist, above all. The first track of "rids the world..." album is absolutely great. thanks very much if you can help me in my quest for knowledge. -ster

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 11:17 am

Ster, producing dub(s) from previously recorded song is common thing, that's how it all started <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Just keep in mind that you have to own copy-right for that song (which in most cases basically "means" that you actually are the person by whom the song was written, performed, recorded, produced), or you have to have permit/authorization from owner to the song/recording to be able legally release you dub-track, simply think of it as you are making a "remix" of previousely released song... Now, your question about what do you need to have to make dubs. Oh, man, this is what this b-board is all about. You may not get many replies here on such general question, because it would be too much to type in and to say allots of things which already were stated. So check out all the topics through this board, you'll find many answers to your questions there. Also see <A HREF="http://www.interruptor.ch/dub.shtml" TARGET="_blank">TheDubScrolls Section</A>, there you'll find allots of technical info and actually may get an idea about what do you need to get (what equipment) to start making dub. In general, to say: There are allots of different options from building vintage analog recording/production studio, trying to use similar equipment and techniques as 'founding fathers of dub' did <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> through "doing it all inside the computer". Most today's producers use mixture of techniques, combining vintage techniques with modern computer based (or digital in general) equipment, tools/software and techniques. So, man, check though the board, if you get some more specific tech questions etc, then ask them one at the time. Multi-Track recording. Very shortly. You know what 'stereo' is , right? Right chnl (speaker) and left chnl (speaker). So, let's say, on the tape right and left chnl gets its own "road to be recorded", it's own separate way, or its own track. So now imagin that the tape has not two, but many "roads", from four to 8, 16, 24 etc. Now you can record different sounds/voices/instruments to its own track, and then later send the signal from each track to each own chnl on the mixer, where you can apply eq, level volume, apply effect and doo all other technical producer's tricks to mix it all into 2-track stereo, making it good sounding stereo-recoding. Tape recording is most "visual" to explain multitrack recording. Nowdays HD(hard-disc) multi-track digital recording is common. So there's no 'real phisical' "roads", but the idea is the same. best regards, respects, /Mike Zee <A HREF="http://www.angelfire.com/music2/mikezee/zdl.html" TARGET="_blank">ZDL</A>

Post by **interruptor** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 11:39 am

the "booooop" sound you refer to is most likely the often heard "test signal with echo": in many mixing boards you have a built-in test signal generator. this is a sound source capable of creating simple tones at a fixed frequency. these were initially intended for doing stuff like calibrating tape machines or testing the channels of your mixer.

-ster · Post by **-ster** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:12 pm

so i can dub a song without a copyright or permission, but not release it. But i need the song on a multi track tape? how is that achieved? -ster

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 9:19 pm

man, you can dub anything you want for your own pleasure <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> It's fun also! If you just want to have fun for yourself, you can start to play around just on your computer. Well, you need pretty good computer thou, so it has enough processing power and storage for audio, also if you wish to get your "productions" out, then you may want to have CD-R drive, so you can make CDs for yourself etc... If you buy new computer nowdays, you usually get pretty much. Then you may get yourself some software , something like SonicFoundry ACID. Then you can record (or even digitally 'rip') some tracks from CDs you have, something from reggae recordings. Then you can "cut out" ridm segments out of it, create loops, arrange them, then cut out some parts with vocals, or lead instruments, arrange them around your ridm track. ACID in a sense IS multi-track. Then you can apply digital effects, like delay, reverb etc.... Again you need good computer to be able play around with digital effects in REAL time, with real-time monitoring/preview. Also, I personally only can see this kind of productions as a "game", you know... I just got new computer for myself. It's Sony/VAIO digital/studio, has ton of power... It already had preinstalled so called Screenblast ACID 2.0 and Screeblast SoundForge editor software. So I just was playing around with machine, while learning how to work in WindowsXP etc. Man, I was amazed how "easy" it is to actually make some sort of music on computer, without needs to actually having any recording/production equipment. Again, I am talking about fun-stuff. All you do is drop CD into drive. Start SForge Screenblast. Go tools/Get Audio from CD. There you can select track or even part of track. Click ok, and in a second you have Digital audio on your screen. Do some basic editing. Make loops. Save them. Then start ACID-2.0, drag'n'drop vari loops. You see, because all the loops were from the same tune, they are all perfect and ready to be mixed, also ACID does sooooo much automatically, you just move parts around, fasten tempo, or slow it down, apply effect, all in real time, it keeps playing while you are experimenting. I'm telling you it takes like few minutes to make a remix of the song. And then all you do, drop CD-Recordable into CD-R drive, in XP all you do is drag'n'drop audio-file into CD-R folder. You don't even need to warry about audio-file format. All supported files will do. Click write. It's done. You don't even need any CD-R software. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR... For a while I was in sort of depression, you know... Well, sure, I have to add , that I have some previouse experience with software in general and overall music production. If you do not have any recording/production experience at all, then it may be somewhat learning curve for you to go through... ********* Now, man, I am going to tell you this, but it's just my openion. If you have some more serious thought about making dubs, then I'd recomend you to get yourself some cheap, maybe used basic equipment and start working/learning. You'll need this: mixer recorder (multi-track, at least four track) mix-down/master recorder (two track stereo) couple effect processors (reverb, delay - minimum) you have to start there, later you'll learn and see what you need. ***** How to get the song on multi-track? You record it. It means that you make the song. Play instruments, sing. Arm track ONE, play drums. Arm track TWO play bass along with previously recorded drums. Arm track three, play piano/organ, synth. Arm track four, sing, or play melodica, or guitar... etc ***** In digital world you can produce music without actually playing anything. Digital sample-play-back synthesizers/samplers can be programed to play, or what we call: sequenced. If you are interested in doing that, then you need to get yourself any digital (MIDI) synthesizer, connect it to your computer via MIDI cable, get some Music Sequencing Software and start learning. With digital sample-play back synthesizers you can actually create "full orchestration/ensemble/band arrangement of the song" **** Ster, what do you have already? Computer? With Sound? Any music software? Do you have any music recording equipment" Do You play any instruments? Did you ever record any instrument, or anything at all? Do you want to biuld a music-production studio? (keep in mind that it is not going to be cheap) Or do you wish to use computer for making dubs? ***** I gotta take a break <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> later, respects also, ignore misspellings and mistypings... I was in a rush, not to mention that I can't type a sh*** to begin with ;) /Mike Zee

-ster · Post by **-ster** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 7:02 pm

Well, first off, the computer stuff sounds ok, but it`s probably over my head. And since i like the old stuff, i`d prefer to do it that way. By the way, i play the bass, so i guess that would help me? Dub though, i`m getting there. I`m begining to understand, but there are still a few things confusing and bothering me. Mixer: in the local music shop they sell a thing which is a four track deal, with like a tape deck built in, like next to all the controls. will that sort of thing do the job. It cost about £150 (new) Multi track tape: What kind of tapes does this take, I automatically assume it`s bigger (wider)? maybe not? I couldn`t find anything like an effects unit around, plenty of puzzled expressions though. No one knows what dub is either. "are you talking about drugs?" was one answer, when i said i wanted to make some dub. One more thing, answer this if nothing else. It`s going to be very difficult for me to get a band together and record. i can play the bass and a little bit of guitar. So are you saying there is no other way of doing it (multi tracking) ? You`ve been very helpful. -ster

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 9:55 pm

Ster, what you've seen in the shop, my guess, it was one of those so called partostudios. These cassette recorders with a 'toy-like' mixer are only good for making some demo-tracks, especially if you are song-writer <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Well, generally speaking, it's no good for dubbing. For dubbing THE MIXER is actually is the most important part of your studio. More chnls, options, more ins/outs, sends/returns, direct out (DIRECT OUTS ARE VERY IMPORTANT!!!!), subgroups, bigger sliders, better eq-section etc etc - better. I'd say for dubbing you need to look at at very least 16 chnls mixer, and it's never enough. You can live with four track recorder, but you with four chnl mixer ..hmmmmmm, it's really tight, man, heh heh heh <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> I tell you what, if you do not feel like dealing with computer, then you need to look at digital multi-track stand-alone 'workstation'. These things are not very cheap, but you can get a deal for used one. I am talking about something like Roland VS-series. Here you can win one <IMG SRC="http://www.interruptor.ch/cgi-bin/discu ... /happy.gif" ALT=":)"> : <A HREF="http://www.recordingconnection.com/reco ... ntest.html" TARGET="_blank">RolandVS-880 contest</A> heh he heh, here's roland product site: <A HREF="http://www.rolandus.com" TARGET="_blank">Roland Site</A> check there through the site, check recording equipment etc, also while you are there, check out some digital synthesisers, you may want to get maybe one of them some day. ********** and, yes, you can record all parts of band by yourself with multitrack recorder, one part at the time, jammin' with previousely recorded tracks/parts. It's never the same as playing in the band thou.... effect processors... grrrrrrrrrr, man, hard to imagin a music store without ton of these things laying there in the dust ;) swing over to Behringer site, which I think actually the cheapest stuff overall (or am I wrong????, guys), there also you'll see mixers and stuff, keep in mind, that it's not TOP of the line, but pretty good for home studio and for the money: <A HREF="http://www.behringer.com" TARGET="_blank">BEHRINGER stuff</A> best regards, later, /Mike Zee

-ster · Post by **-ster** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 12:55 pm

i dont think you understood one of my things. what i meant was, it would be difficult for me to get a drummer, or get a drum kit. and the same for the rest of the band. is it not possible to get hold of multi track tapes, already recorded on i mean. how did others do it, do they get the tapes from the guys who recorded the stuff (thats if it wasn`t them i suppose) or what. thanks for your time -ster

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 1:52 pm

sorry, man, if I completely don't get what is your question. do you mean: you want somebody else somewhere else to record some parts and then give this tape to you and then you record/add other parts. It is possible, people do it. Well, you can carry your recorder with you or just a tape, if the other person have the same multitrack recorder machine, or you can send the tape by mail. Let's say, for example, you send the tape to drummer, he plays/records drum tracks (track 1and2), then sends the tape back to you , you play bass, record on track 3, then you send the tape to keybordist, he plays/records organ on track 4 and synth on track 5, and pianos on track 6, then send the tape to sax player, he adds sax sollo on track 7, then send the tape to singer, he records vocals on track 8, then you get the tape back, and do you mix-down, or create dub-track. Well, you know, it is possible also if you all guys know what you are doing, meaning that you are putting together some WRITTEN song, and again all of you have the same multi-track machines. well, i wouldn't go on here, 'cos I am not sure if I am unswering your question .. ;) /Mike Zee

kenyatta · Post by **kenyatta** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 8:39 pm

the old guys (scratch, tubby, etc) did the tracking (recording of individual instruments to multitrack tape) themselves. in fact, before they even invented dub, they worked as studio engineers, tracking those great bands. it was supposedly by mistake that tubby did the first dub- he was mixing down a session (when you use a mixer to record all of the tracks down to a stereo master), and he either had the vocal muted, or he screwed up and didn't record the vocal, or something like that, so they put the instrumental on a "b" side, some dj (maybe coxsonne dodd or someone) played it at a dance, and everyone loved it, and it grew from there. or something like that. anyhow, chances are, you're going to have a hard time getting some band to turn over their multitrack studio tape to you, unless you recorded them yourself. maybe if you were mad professor or something. one idea would be to get a drum machine, or sampler, and just program or sample your drums. if you do this well, no one will know the difference, and you won't have to deal with some stupid drummer drinking your beer and hitting on your girlfriend. another idea would be this collaborative idea that mike said above. i'll tell you that doing the tracking on a computer would be much more conducive to this sharing than using analog tape. i mean, i like tape alot, but you'd either need to have every musician you work with use the same machine, or ship the single machine around to everyone. it would make more sense for you to learn how to use the multitrack and record players yourself. like you could maybe get together with a drummer, mic up his drum kit (a whole science in and of itself) and lay down the drum and bass parts to tape. then, later, lay down guitar, maybe bring the deck over to a keyboard player's house, record keys, etc. then do the mixdown, (which is really where the "dub" part happens by yourself.)

Mike Zee · Post by **Mike Zee** » Sat Jul 27, 2002 10:21 pm

Kenyatta makes some good common sense points from practical side. This 'snail-mail multi-track tape' colab is somewhat not very practical, really. Well, productively, this can be done by guys who maybe used to play together, or all of them have some good musical-training 'bone' and also all of them has to be into the style of music you are after, and yes, all the guys must have the same recording machine and somewhat studio-setup and know how to record (or go to some other pro-studio to do this), most common here actually is something like ADAT digital 8-track. Well, as you can see, it's just too much ... Practically, you really need to learn digital recording, and better computer based, if you are planing to make your own production and especially if you thinking of using some parts which you can't or don't want to do yourself. Because digital recording gives you all the tools you need to put together track, using vary "componets", weather it is just sample sounds or the whole takes/parts, like solo instruments, or vocals etc.... Again, if you completely DO NOT want to deal with computer, then get yourself digital multi-track workstation, as I 've mention above. You also can take it with you, go to your friend-drummer's place, record some drum parts, and then use them to construct your future tracks. You see in digital workstation you can copy-past parts, move them from track to track without losing recording quality. You can use for example just some short (loops) or longer takes from drummer's recording and build up the song (or drum track for your song, you see this kind of editing is not possible on tape-recorder), then play bass over and add other instruments later. later, respects, /Mike Zee

bin_ez · Post by **bin_ez** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 4:56 am

Yeah, King Tubby played the first dub track on his own "King Tubby's Home Town Hi-Fi" sound, he also had a delay unit on his sound and U Roy was the DJ, this started off the craze for delays and reverbs... ster, if you are talking about the remixing or dubbing of the old classics, get yourself a program like Protools, by mixing an instrumental of a track with the original, and using delays , eqs etc., you can come up with your own original mix of a song. download Protools at: www.txireland.com

ster · Post by **ster** » Sun Jul 28, 2002 11:44 am

thanks guys, you`ve been great.

dub riddim · Post by **dub riddim** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 4:09 pm

Greetings all, i dont know shit about how to start making dub tunes, but this is something which i am seriously investigating on as i just LOVE dub......i heard that the latest reason software is good it has the all round use from beginners to pro's ........it seems u guys know your stuff so i would like more info on this ...i'm glad i found this site as i was looking for the dubheads who are also interested in making music.....ini is into the shaka style heavy bass, flute, effects etc ya know!! respects to each and everyone here!!

KoCha · Post by **KoCha** » Sat Nov 09, 2002 7:15 pm

Hi, Respect man, dub is the most beautiful music... i have no time to do a long post now.. But just check this link : http://www.interruptor.ch/dub_basics.shtml It explain the basics, imagine that reason do that in the computer. But i recommand you to try the live dub mix... with a mixing desk... real good sensation. See You KoCha

Jorgo · Post by **Jorgo** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 11:41 pm

much respect for the new dub greators and don't forget you need your own style

kykeon000 · Post by **kykeon000** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 6:08 pm

pass me the laser beam? whats the probable source for the type of laser beam sound in that particular don carlos cut?

Neil C · Post by **Neil C** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 10:20 pm

From my memory of the track my guess is its a synthesizer of some sort (rather than a dub horn type device, though maybe it is). There were quite a few around when that was made that could make a sound like that. A simple oscillator with a modulated LFO applied to it would do most of the trick. I stand to be enlightened!

papabobo · Post by **papabobo** » Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:22 am

pardons if this was said up there, but is it possible to take a record and record it to a medium, like a multitrack, and then manually be able to manipulate the sounds of different instruments in and out? like take a record of an artist like say tommy mcCook and record it in a way to take horns in and out? split the signal or something? or does this require the software mentioned. i have a roland disclab and standard dj gear, some effects, but i am interested in on the cheap remixing from old scratchy 45's and some cdrs. let me know brothers and this is a great board. i spend a lot of time reading here and i am looking into the software. i have reason right now but i am looking for something to rip off discs and strip down and dub out. raspect

DELETED · Post by **DELETED** » Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:58 am

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