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Song, toast an dub?
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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2005 6:17 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

Can u like have song on music that is dub isnt it just reggae then? Or are u supposed to toast the dub but isnt it dancehall then? Or can u have both on a dub song?
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John Ellison IV



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:11 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

I'm sorry, that statement doesn't make any sense. Are you asking can you have a song that isn't reggae but be classified as "Dub"?
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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 6:28 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

I'm sorry, that statement doesn't make any sense. Are you asking can you have a song that isn't reggae but be classified as "Dub"?

Yeah that is what i meant...
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 24, 2005 8:59 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

Q: ...can you have a song that isn't reggae but be classified as "Dub"?
A: No.
If the question is related to "DUB" as known and established musical genre.

**********
If the question is wide-open and general.... then I'd say this: you can 'classify' anything and everything you want the way you wish and thus establish another one of a kind original classification system of what ever it is you are lassifying. That's how all classifications have been established once upon a time :)

/respects
/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 4:22 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

But many men still make dub that sounds more like electro (download Johan Skugge) or more drum n bass then Reggae dub and u have Asian dub foundation that use hiphop beats instead of one drop or steppers on many of their dub tracks.
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

Daniel Eriksson, many men do make all sorts of things and name all sorts of things by all sorts of words... and used to do so... and will be doing so.
Let's see: After California's 2003 California Gubernatorial Recall many men named their new-born puppies Arnold, some did it 'in honor' some did it 'in protest'. Now two+ years later - The Terminator still Governs and gives interviews while dogs still bark at crows and chase cats. Thigs still are what they are ..., yet many men did what they wanted to do - they made their "statement" :)

So?

/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:13 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

None of the Asian Dub Foundation tracks I've heard would I call dub. They're not.

Drum and Bass and also Jungle when that was around used dub type bass lines - but it wasn't dub.

Its impossible to say where the boundary between something being dub or not being dub is (its a fuzzy line) - but there are some things that definitely are and some things that are definitely not.
Adrian Sherwood recently did an album that used break type beats - but it was still what I'd call dub. So I don't think you have to stick to a rigid formula - but there are some things that just aren't dub (like ADF).
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 1:51 am    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

So I don't think you have to stick to a rigid formula...
Yeah, man sure. I personally always salute artistic originality, innovations and all that... that's all cool. What's not cool is when "innovative" artists 'pretend' to be in their presentation or in their promotional effort or simply use or even parasitize on something what's to be considered from their point of view as 'old', 'uncool', 'boring', 'conservative' etc...
ADF is a great name, you know.... so why not use it. :)

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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 2:30 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

But its not only them who use to call it a dub track even critics call it dub i want too know is dub a musical categorie or is it a word to use when u make tracks that use a lot of echo and a lot of bass sounds
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 4:17 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

DUB as musical genre (in very short description) is a re-arranged/re-mixed reggae song, which done in a specific way (i.e. there are some typical (or say. "traditional") "structure" of the mix with strong emphasis on rhythm section (bass and drums), lead/solo vocals/instruments drop-outs (mutes) and applying specific effects through out the mix, which "traditionally" being done on-the-fly, meaning muting and applying (engaging/disengaging) effects on selected tracks/channels and adjusting effects parameters in real time while mixing, which makes the DUB-ing process to become a unique "performance").
DUB-ing can be done in studio to produce/record a dub-track/dub-version/dub-plate or as live performance on stage or in the club with live-playing band or using pre-recorded material as a source.
*************
Music, like any other form of art, can and is full of variations, and thus there are always were and are and will be grey or even mysterious and mind-troubling areas when it comes to any attempt to "classify" or "categorize" any piece of art or artistic performance. Therefore words like "influenced", "fusion", "experimental", "free form" and such come very handy and are being used (and should be used! :)) when categorizing a piece of art, which does not 'clearly fit' into any of category (or genre), which is historically established and widely recognized within artists, fans and established critics community (also known as 'scene', i.e. DUB-scene in our case)).
********
DUD as a word was, is and will be used by different people for various reasons and various purposes, which is rather irrelevant to a discussion about DUD as musical genre.

/respects
/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE
ZDL

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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 7:22 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

But Linton Kwesi Johnson is dub but he´s vocals isn't mute. So i must create somekind of exprimentall fusion ;)
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:12 am    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

So i must create somekind of exprimentall fusion

Creat what ever you want or feel like. More power to You! :)

/Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE

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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:29 am    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

But Linton Kwesi Johnson is dub but he´s vocals isn't mute.
by the way, what ever your are trying to say here... only God knows.
But anyways...
When LKJ DUB-ing - it's dub. When he's reading his poetry or making a speach - it isn't. So much to discussion... yada yada ...

/respects

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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 10:42 am    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

That is surreal hehe =)
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 3:26 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

That is surreal hehe =)

what's sureal? and what are you hehe-ing about?

You've asked a question. You've got the answer. Looks like you don't like the answer. So it looks like you did not really have a question, but rather wanted to make "a statement".
You can blah-blah about what's dub and what's not to death. It would not change a thing . We've been doing it over and over and over again... so what's the point.

If you want to 'spotlight' some specific artist or an album/specific track from an album and discuss it ... go for it. BE SPECIFIC and try to be reasonable in your statements and arguments.
Sorry, man, but to say things like: " But Linton Kwesi Johnson is dub but he´s vocals isn't mute." is pretty much oximoronic. I can only guess what exactly your are trying to say here, but to follow what you actually saying, here's my reply:
Linton Kwesi Johnson is not dub. He's a Man, he's Linton Kwesi Johnson.
the second part - "..he´s vocals isn't mute". hmmmm? vocals? isn't? mute? these three words kind of do not stick well, man. But , hey, you've said what you've said.
If you actually do mean any specific track from any specific album - bring it on, point it out, make you point.

arghhhhhhhhh
**************

btw, for guys, who get 'headache' and can't sleep well at night, when trying to figure out whether or not a track/album is dub. I have a hint for you :). If you (or an artist, or a critic, or a fan) need(s) to (have to) explain why this track IS DUB (i.e. it has that dubby bass, it has that one drop feel, it has that reverby vibe, it has that message etc etc), then chances are and most likely the track IS NOT dub, because when a track/record/album IS DUB, then no explanations needed - you know it right on the spot. Think about it.

/respects

/later,
/Mike Zee aka DR ZEE

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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:43 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

I think the point here is that LKJ is doing "DUB POETRY" not "DUB".

I assume at the time they coined the term DUB POET, they did it to set themselves apart from the ordinary sound system MCs of the time.
Sound system MCs (or DJ's as they are still called in JA) basically are there to hype up the crowd whereas the Dub poets had a more intellectual approach, putting a political message in the foreground.

So LKJ is definitely not a Dub artist. Rather he is a poet who chants his poems on top of a Dub.
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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:34 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

Mike Zee chill out i rather liked the answer then disliked it because it answered my first question. I didnt mean to upset u or anything but serious u did understand the question, u answered it, thanks for the answer, why i think that it is surreal was that the instrumental part was dub and not him but together it could still be a track. You are talking about specifying but didnt i do that by dissgusing LKJ? Because every track i have heard with him hes poetry isnt mute and the instrumental part is dub. So smoke a blunt and chill down rather then be aggresive of my stupidity :)
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John Ellison IV



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Thu Sep 22, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

Daniel...is english your first language?
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Daniel Eriksson



Joined: 16 Apr 2005
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:28 pm    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

No i really suck on english
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 08, 2006 7:32 am    Post subject: Song, toast an dub? Reply with quote

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