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Do you use live drums or synths/sampling?

 
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Looter



Joined: 13 Mar 2001
Posts: 111
Location: US

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2001 7:54 pm    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

I'm taking a likkle poll: Do record a live drummer or do you use loops, sampling, synths etc?
Or, do you use both?

If you use live drums, how do you set up & mic the kit? And if you use electronic drums how do you get your sound?
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Mike Zee



Joined: 20 Mar 2001
Posts: 766
Location: NY, USA

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 5:06 am    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

after trying and doing both and trying and doing a mixed-hybrid kind of 'drum-section creation' I don't really know anymore these days what's better and what's easier to achive the goal.
well, i gues, for the most it's depends on what's the goal is and what's the situation. I mean, if you (or you as producer) for a band, then you do not have other options, but mic'in drum-kit.
also situation gets more complicated, cos, now-days many bands using a mixture of acoustic drums, percussions and electronc peds-kits-triggers (what ever, it can be a synth-drums or a sampler/samples of actual accoustic drum kit which were prepared/pre-programed by producer/or the drummer himself)...
ok, I know...this is all just general blah blah ;)...

so, few years ago when my friend locally had a pretty good private studio, we used to actually record accoustic drum kit. It was a pain in a'a** to do thou..., then after his parents had to sell the place, we did not have a studio where we could make all this NOISE!!!!. So as alternative I've got Roland full electonic drumkit set. over 2K!!!! and, man, was it a waste of money???? I mean it's like sort of fun to play, and you sort of get the feel of playing, but the result really sucks big time. I mean I always could midi-sequence better drum trucks, then with this RolandDK..., I don't know about V-Drums...., but I would gues they suck too, he he.., well, I maybe wrong.
So I sold Roland kit (for almost half price of what I paid..., nobody wants this shi*)...,
so now I ca't let myself play drums in my basement studio. It's just too loud. Not in my place. Other houses are too close, you know..., but I am thinking about it...
so, what I do now, is using a combination of drum-samples , mostly just a huge collection of all kind of drums and percussions I've collected and programed over the time. I have like some favorits thou..., still use some samples from synth, but really very few. most of them suck, you know..., so i'd say couple of sounds from orbit-9090, couple of samples from roland -JV series, and most what I use is a vary samples, loading to akai-s3000xl., tweakin', eq-ing, efx, sequensing, using couple out-boxes, compressor, eq-again...etc. I used to make loops, or using combinations of loops, pre-sequenced loops, loops from sampling cd(s) libraries, and midi-sequencing sampled drum-kits. But these days I use loops less and less, next to non. I kind of figured, that loops does not give enough freedom composition-wise.

well, stuff like that

regards, n'respects

/Mike Zee

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Mike Zee aka Dr ZEE
ZEE DUB LAB
Dr ZEE WORKSHOP
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DC



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2001 9:14 am    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

In my live setup, i work with a drummer. With partly electronic kit. hihat, snare and cymbals are acoustic, toms and kick are electronic hooked to an alesis D4 drummodule. Snare and hihat are miked with shure sm57's and the use 2 overheads for cymbals with 2 audio technica pro37r condenser mics. And all 's got his own channel on mixing desk. Kick and snare with gate/compression.
But that's for live only. For studio works i program drums, no loops but programmed. When i get more space i'll start recording real drums. with mics, but still with the advantage to trigger the D4. So you can combine the sounds.I mean a acoustic kick drum is one hell of a job to get it sound good. so why not trigger a fat kick with the recorded sound?

DC
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johny2bad



Joined: 02 May 2001
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:04 am    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

'I mean a acoustic kick drum is one hell of a job to get it sound good'

try taping a quarter to where it gets hit on the skin...try recording from a further distance and pump it later in the mix...also sometimes shittier mics end up working better with an acoustic drum set...i mean sly dunbar and crew spent hours if not years trying to imitate motown-style drums (especially the hi-hats)...and that stuff was recorded with total crap mics in the beginning...
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2001 12:18 am    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

I always worked with sequenced and/or looped drums
so far. With the possibilities I have right now
this will not change for a while..
The hardest part when sequencing drum loops are
the high hats. You can either go for a computer-
style approach which is simple or try to make it
sound like a real high hat being played. To
do this it's very important to use a whole range
of closed hi-hat samples - thus simulating harder
and softer hits. The same applies for conga-loops.
If you want it to sound real you need at least
samples from 5 different conga hits (best being
cut from a life conga loop)
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Looter



Joined: 13 Mar 2001
Posts: 111
Location: US

PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2001 7:51 pm    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

Right now I'm focusing on getting an old-school, dub drum sound. My goal is to mic the kit in a way that allows me to manipulate the snare and hi-hat sound for tubby-style effects. Does anyone know an easy way to do this? Keep in mind I'm working with only 4 tracks for the total mix.

Also, what drums/percussion do you think are used widely in dub, other than the regular drums in the kit? I know some use timbalis (sp?) and ting.

Respects,

Looter
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DC



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2001 9:04 am    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

I should record hihat and snare onto 1 channel but with seperate mics, so you have to EQ them in a very good way before recording.
All kinds of percussion can be used. As for the timbale sound. mostly it's a normal snare drum but tuned in another way. The drummer of my band used to have 2 snaredrums in his kit.

DC
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kenyatta413



Joined: 12 Dec 2001
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2001 6:33 pm    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

i've figured out a way to get a good hihat sound in reason. (any reason users out there let me know if you know any good techniques.) the reason drum machine has a couple of slots- i know the 8 slot is one of them, where the start point of the sample can be set to vary depending on the velocity of the hit. it's very realistic for hi-hats, coz the lighter hits you don't get that first "attack" part of the hit. then, rather that sequencing the hihat with the drum machine, (which only has 3 levels of sensitivity), you run the gate control out from a matrix pattern sequencer into the gate in on just the 8 slot (if that's where your hihat is)of the drumbox. this lets you have much more variation in sensitivity, AND you can get crazy and do a 32-step pattern even if the drumbox is only doing 8. or, if you've got a velocity sensitive midi keyboard, you could try "playing" the hihat live. (this is what i want to start doing once i get a midi controller.)
anyone with other reason-related dub tips, or questions, (though i'm no kind of expert)remove "boogie" from the email address to email me.
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Martin



Joined: 22 Sep 2001
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2002 3:10 pm    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

For me, there are only two ways to get a good drumsound ,and it depends on the style of the music to use live or seqenced drums.
The Mpc 2000 or the XL-version is the wickedest machine to program pattern.Especially the 16-levels function is a powerful tool to make a pattern groove.
If you're using live drums make sure you have a
REAL STEADY drummer.
I get my best results with miking only the BOTTOM
side of the snare for rimshots (rockers style)
and miking the top AND the bottom for sidesticks
(one drop).The best result you get, if you're using condensers.
Try a 13" HiHat , these sound much crisper than the 14". Remove all the bottom skins from the toms
and put the mike INTO the tom.
Use a wood beater for the BD. Don't overdampen the BD.A Beta 52 inside and a large condenser outside is working good.
Use gate and compressor or use tape saturation
if you're recording on reel.
If you have a tight riddim section , forget about the click-track , if you're using drummachines, switch of the Quantisizing.
Take a drummer to program drums
a bassman to play bass
and a keyboarder to play keyboards ....
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joshua



Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:29 am    Post subject: Do you use live drums or synths/sampling? Reply with quote

digital sound, is robot; should not mimic real. FREE DOWNLOAD FOR CDPC FROM www.BODY-RYTHMN.com ELECTRONIC BEATBOX SYSTEM
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andy_dub



Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 1
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 2:51 pm    Post subject: sample acoustic kits... Reply with quote

Acoustic drums win every-time when it comes to music that you want to add that live emotion to (and my opinion reggae and dub can be one of the most moving genres out there). However, recording an acoustic kit is a real art and takes years of practice to develop a style and knowledge of techniques.

So here's the plan:
- Save up some cash

- Find a really good solid drummer (timing and technique is more important than huge fills and complicated rhythms).

- Write the drum parts for your songs in midi and get your drummer to learn them. (midi is easily changed at short notice if the drummer cant play what you've wrote or thinks of something better)

- Pay for a day of studio time with an engineer who has a good reputation or has an impressive collection of recordings you like. (this way you get the benefit of experience, a good acoustic environment and access to mic's and outboard without having to buy it all)

- Record your tracks in the morning while the drummer is fresh (Make sure you have your full song tracks before moving on...)

- Record single hits, loops and fills later using different drums, mic positions etc.... (Record single hits for as long as you can afford/ the session finishes. Also, use a click track for loops)

- This builds up a library of sounds to use that are all your own creation and you have full tracks for a selection of songs.


Hope this helps even if it is a hassle...

andy
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GuitarplayainMD



Joined: 23 May 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri May 23, 2008 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used a drum program and some live drummer loops. Seriously, finding a drummer is a bitch,man. I'm trying to find a drummer that's into different kinds of music but everyone is so narrowminded to music in my neck of the woods.
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