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Rhythms, speeds & skanks

 
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MotorMind



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2005 1:04 pm    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

Ever so often when trying to make a dub track, I will simply take a straight beat with the snare on the 2 and 4 and play skanks on guitar or piano on every 8th, basically doubling the speed, so the snare will seem to fall on the 3rd. Is this proper technique?

I have a whole set of slow reggae drum-loops, where the speed seems to be double the amount, e.g. a 70 bpm loop sounds more like 140 bpm, since the hihat gets played every 8th note (even though the snare is on the 3rd). This confuses the heck out of me.

To illustrate my point, I will let you hear loop I made, which is 90 bpm. The skank is on every 4th note, but to me actually sounds better to me on every 8th... but then the track won't be the slow dub I want to make. You can get it here:

http://www.jazzcat.dds.nl/Dub_Trial.mp3

So does anyone have any insights what I might be doing wrong, if anything? Thanks in advance...
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Neil C



Joined: 25 Feb 2004
Posts: 364
Location: Moonbase Alpha

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

I don't think yours is quite right, sounds strange to me, although I can't analyse exactly where you are going 'wrong'.

I found this which might help you:
http://www.wayneandwax.org/lessons/roots-riddim-tutorial.html

There is also discussion of dub rhythms on this site, but I can't find it at the moment.
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MotorMind



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 12:58 pm    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

For some reason, the on-drop in that article sounds even more off. I don't think the hat and kick should be played at the same time. More often I hear the kick played on the 3... and often also the snare.

This is what I am trying to do here: playing the snare on the 3. The second loop is from a loop library at 70 bpm, but actually sounds like it is 140 bpm. So I feel like I have to double the skank to make it work.

I uploaded a new version with a bit more obvious main drum part and the skank doubled. It sounds a bit better, but of course the skank is way too fast...
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:14 pm    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

yes, that drum loop was made to put twice as many skanks on it. the slow feel is then gone, sure. but this is a dance oriented loop. it's the variations in between (bass drum) which make it feel strange when used in a slow manner.

where did you get that loop from? the crackling seems to indicate you got it from a vinyl recording.

the page indicated by neil is a nice tutorial indeed!
also check this thread: link
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MotoMind



Joined: 02 Oct 2005
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:28 pm    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

There are actually two loops there: one from the Reason library (with the hats on the 8ths) and another one, which used to be a rock loop that I ripped off some album ages ago. I changed it around a lot to make it sound like a reggae loop.

There also seems to be some misconception om my side: I thought a skank had always to be on the 2 and 4 ... but in one-drop it actually gets played on ever off-beat, so you get double the amount. I also had this drum teacher tell me that in reagge you always get the snare on 3... ah well ;)
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interruptor



Joined: 04 Sep 2005
Posts: 1138
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

it really all depends on how you count the beats. some do it this way some the other. I tend to count all reggae beats with the snare on the third beat and the skanks on 2 and 4. so a 1drop is ca. 160BPM, a steppers beat ca. 130BPM
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John Ellison IV



Joined: 12 Jan 2004
Posts: 27

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 12:45 am    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

It sounds like someone having an epeleptic fit on the drums...
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boofnpeng



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2005 10:56 am    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

For the instance of your sample i would say the hihat and skanks are placed right but its the randomness of your kick and snare that seem to put the loop off, actually i put the loop in an editor and started the beat from a different point that makes it have more sense, more in the groove of a funky reggae beat, the snare only falls on the 3rd beat once in every two bars (1st bar), a kick falls on 3rd in 2nd bar and thats how the loop revolves, nothing particularly wrong in that, its a style, a bass line would bring things more together.

check the re-edited loop:
http://s64.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=155D6K1I3CI3921Y96U05FNGUV
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MotorMind



Joined: 01 Oct 2005
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Rhythms, speeds & skanks Reply with quote

Actually, I decided to simplify, so I got rid of that second beat and simply doubled up the first one. I also added some bass and effects and am now well on the way to finish my track. I uploaded a snippet, so you can hear for yourself.
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drewzle



Joined: 08 Nov 2008
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Motormind, i think it is hard to be sure of drum placements when dealing with sampled loops. the way a good drummer can shift time will confuse even an experienced ear : )
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