| Author | Message | ||
     Dan |
Here's a kind of dopey question: I recently bought a portastudio (digital) (it was an impulse buy), and realize now that it probably isn't really right for making dub (although it has many other decent features, including tons of pretty good guitar effects and a useful drum machine). I was looking at the Interruptor's drawing on the "basics" area of this site, and it shows, for instance, four instruments recording directly to a 4 track reel-to-reel, which then has 4 lines out to a mixing board, which is in turn connected to off-board effects and, ultimately, a stereo recording device for mixdown. Here is my question: is there something like the 4 track reel-to-reel that is digital, but not a portastudio, and that would have, to keep the same example, 4 lines out that I could then run to a mixing board, etc.? I considered using my portastudio as the recording device (it has an 80 MB hard drive for storing projects, which would be ideal), but it doesn't have enough lines out to go to a separate mixing board (and given the signal routing inflexibility of the portastudio, this may not really work anyway). I suspect I just need to buy a 4 track reel to reel or cassette recorder and separate mixing board, but I'd appreciate it if anyone could point out another path I might be missing. Also, I should mention that I am not interested in working through my computer, as my computer skills are even weaker than my studio skills, if that is imaginable. Sorry to have rambled on so long. Any insight would be appreciated. Peace to all. Dan | ||
| DjSkizz |
There is a 4 track from Tascam the 424 MK3,its a 8 channel mixer 4-track cassette recorder with individual outputs!!Just check out the specs at Tascam's websight. | ||
| Mike Zee |
[b]something like the 4 track reel-to-reel that is digital, but not a portastudio[/b] from top of my head, the only I know such thing was(is) akai-DR4d (I have two of them  ). This is if you mean digital four-track recorder with internal Hard-Disc without any built-in mixer and other porta-studio stuff. If you are lucky you can find used akai-DR4d not so expansive. Originally DR4s were something between $800-$1000 or so depending on HD-size, but now used you can find like for $200 more or less. The lates version was v-4, here's the link to akai-site: AKAI DR4d, but keep in mind that as I know akai does not make them any longer. Nowdays all digital standalone multitracks have digital mixer section, it's just a market print, as I can tell. ******* alternative thoughts: 1. you can search trough and shop around and see for yourself, because you can for example find 8-track hard-disc recorder for about the same price, some have digital mixer, but if unit has all outputs, then you can just use it as recorder and use your analog mixer for actual mixdown/dubbing. 2. If you have ok computer, then you may think about getting multi in/out soundcard and use your computer as digital multi-track recorder. I would not say that it would be much cheaper, thou... about the same after all and it depends on how 'frendly' you are with computer in general, 'cos recording on computer is not the same as - turn it on, push REC-button and you're in , computers are pain in a neck, you know.... example of multi-out sound card: Echo Gina 24, there are many more /respects, /Mike Zee Z-D-L | ||
| Dan |
DJ Skizz and Mike Zee: thanks for your responses. I didn't realize the Tascam 424 MKIII had the four lines out -- this looks like a real possibility for me. I downloaded the manual from the website and I'm looking into it. Mike Zee: I will check out new digital recorders to see what's around. Most digital cd recorders I see around are mostly burners, I guess, and maybe okay for mixdown, but I'll keep my eyes open for ones with multitrack capabilities. Thanks to both of you for all your help. Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
Most digital cd recorders I see around are mostly burners Dan, no , I am not talking about CD-recorders. I talking about stand-alone HARD DISC digital multitrack recorders. Some of them are simply multi-track recorders, some of them are more or less "complete recording porta-studios" with mixer, sometimes built-in effects and vary other options.... There are actually other digital multi-tracks, like 4/8 tracks MINI-Disc recorders, which are pretty much the same as casstte multi-track porat-studios, but using digital format recording direct to mini-disc (Tascam, Yamaha, Sony) were trying to push this format for some time, but looks like they have not become very popular, I would not recommend them for anything. Here, check out this link, it's just a list of today's available stand-alone digital recorders at musicianfriend: standalone digital multi-track recorders, also on that page you'll see another group of products, which are porta-studios (with buitl-in mixer etc) /respects /mike Zee | ||
| Dan |
Mike Zee: thanks for the follow-up post with link to Musician's Friend. If I read your post correctly, you're contrasting hard disc recorders with mini-disc recorders, and saying the mini-disc ones (with flash card type things for storage)aren't worth the trouble (I was advised against buying one like that before, which is why I went with portastudio I have now, with the 80MB storage). Unfortunately, the hard disc stand alones look pretty expensive. Would you not recommend something like the Tascam 424 MKIII, even for use merely as a stand alone recorder with outs to a separate mixing board (and I realize it's got the 4 track limitation and won't be as good for bouncing tracks)? If so, what would you recommend? I'm a little leery of buying a used reel to reel because I'm not much good at fixing things, and I'm not sure I even know enough to test it properly. Do you think an 8 track stand alone digital recorder (presuming it's got enough lines out) would just be a "less hassle" better investment (i.e., money better spent in the long run)? Thanks so much for your input. You're really helpful to all who come to this site. Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
Dan, if you ABSOLUTELY sure that you can not or do not want to deal with possible fixing things or even do some Maintenance, then stay away from used reel-to-reel or cassette portastudios, because sooner or later you'll have to deal with it. Reel-To-Reel machines are more likely older as well and more likely will need some care. You can find pretty good condition and little-used cassette studio thou, but again any device where mechanics involved will need some care. Now, here's what I can tell (however!!!), the 'bad' thing about tape recorders is that you have to take care of it, but at least you CAN do it yourself and even fix some thing on your own. Not the same with digital recorders (regardless of is it CD, MD or HD) - if it goes bad (problems) - there is not much you can do if any, and well, thigs DO go wrong with digital recorders, and then all you can do is to send for professional repair. Digital recorders are simply 'dedicated computers'. For example one of my older AKAI-DR4d gives me big problems all the time, and what it is - during recording/play-back it often stops with an ERROR message. I look into manuals, and all I can tell - it is an Hard Disc Error. I did try reformating the Hard Disc - it did not help. So all I can do now is to send it to AKAI dealer for repair, and it may means I'll need to install a new Hard Drive or maybe some operating system corruption or what ever... Digital vs. analog. Man, this could be a long discussion. We had here some long talk about it: digital or analog, more topics here But in general: Digital recorders gives you 'better' (better to say cleaner) sound quality and ability to nearly endles editing capability, instant access (start/play/record points, punch in/out), fast erase (so called undo), loop rehearsal play .... etc etc. This is something which you just can not do with tape recorder. What's better for the money? There is no way I can answer to this question. Please check out these topics-links above. It depends on what you are doing and what is your goal. Depends on where you live. If you have some good music-equipment store in your are, then go there instead of shopping on line first. Most music-equipment stores have used gear and you can find good used multi-track there (cassete or digital), most important you'll see what you get and at least you'll have some sort of insurance that it works ok. If you have limited cash to spend and you are shopping for your only one recorder - it's pretty risky to shop on line, like e-bay (which isn't really the cheapest place on earth anymore) and you can endup with something not what you thought it is, while spending money for shipping... Music stores in general often buy gear from musicians for about half-value price and then sell it to make what ever little extra.... no shipping, no guessing, you can see the thing, test it and usually if it goes really bad, you can return it to the store during some time... well, man, if you have specific questions about some specific machine, drop a note.... /respects /Mike Zee | ||
| Looter |
Try looking in this forum under "Other" for the topic "Analog Record Machine wanted". | ||
| Dan |
Thanks Mike Zee for your response (and Looter, too). I just today saw a used Tascam 34B reel to reel which I think the seller may take $400 for. He claims it works fine. Worth looking into? Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
34B is great machine, but for $400 you make sure it is in REALLY good working condition, you must see and test the machine to know, if you can't check it out (like if you saw it on line or in the paper add) then you are taking a risk, you know. Also you can find the same machine in good shape for $200-300 (well you'll need to really shop around and get a good luck ) and I've seen people selling B34 for $600 or even more.... there's no rules really here. For the best deal you need to fine a person who does not really needs the machine nor ever used it nor values it, if the seller is a musician/or producer, then they may try to sell it for higher price, cos they know that the machine has value, 'regular' people may think that it's just an old heavy pice of junk heh heh /Mike Zee | ||
| Danno88 |
Thanks so much Mike Zee. A local music store is selling it, so I can get a chance to try it out. The owner's had it around for a long time and would like to get rid of it. They have a Fostex (I think) 16 track reel to reel for which they want almost $2,000, but I would guess they're not too easy to find! Thanks a million for all your help. Hope all is well with you. Peace. Dan | ||
| Dan |
Oops. Last message came out with user name "Danno88"; should be just Dan. See you. | ||
| KoCha |
Check the "Yamaha MD8" 8track direct out + integrated mixer. KoCha www.Almighty-Dub.com | ||
| aleph |
I have a 16 track fostex:2000$ is really too expensive (800$ is the price i 've paid for it!) I think that analog is the solution for roots dub only if you record reel instruments.If you use expend sounds or samples analog will be only a source off problems.. | ||
| Mike Zee |
If you use expend sounds or samples analog will be only a source off problems Aleph, I am not sure what do You mean here. What are analogtape-recording problems related specifically to recording sample-based/digital synthesizers instruments? /MikeZee | ||
| aleph |
I mean it will add unwanted noise and will not really warm your sound,it is like putting diesel in a ferrari. But if you use reel instrument with good mic (nt2 are cheap and really good for ex)with a tape recorder it will be a child game to have this 70'sound we all love. | ||
| Dan |
Hello Kocha! I went to the Yamaha (US) site and searched, but could not find reference to an MD8? Does the machine you're referring to have any other name? Thanks. Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
md8 is a digital 8-track portastudio-style desk-top unit which records on mini-disc (MD), keep in mind that mini-disc fromat is compressed audio (not bad, but it's pretty bad ) These type of recorders are GONE for good, I don't really know what the companies (sony, tascam, yamah) were thinking of, deciding to make this 'stations'. No company makes them anynore, this is why you will not see them listed at official web-ste, unless they have some archive-products listings and support, some sites do. You still can find it as used, but I would not recommend it, thay are not cheap (originally they were around $1000 - more or less, actually they were 4-track, yamaha MD8 was the only 8-track MD-recorder). Nowdays you'll find for tha same price hard-disc recorder with better audio-quality, better editing etc. i've seen md8s on e-bay for around $500 - it's crazy.... The unit is kind of cool thou..., but really not the best choice for the $$$. /Mike Zee | ||
| Mike Zee |
Aleph, what you're saying is 'semi-true' , I mean, if you play digital synthesizer (which is sample-based) and or sampler, but the signal goes through analog mixer, applying vary effects/tratment (effects, eq, compressor - you name it) - you still may want to capture the sound as ANALOG instead of converting it to digital and also take all the 'sugar' of tape-compression effect etc... Another words, what's in your mixer - IS A REAL THING, you know what I mean. Also when it comes to dubbing, then reels are REELs - nothing can really replace it. Dubbing from 4/8/16 - what ever tracks analog tape is not the same as dubbing from digital tape/or HD multi-track. Digital recording is just way TOO perfect. It's not just about the sound texture, but 'timing/speed' as well, you know there's a BIG difference between Cassio-digi clock and Swinger GrandFather Clock ..heh heh /respects, /Mike Zee | ||
| aleph |
In fact if i said that mike,it's because i've just recorded 5 song on my 16track 2inch with a real drummer. Before,(i had only one nt1),with a true high hat and sampled snare,kick,tom running into my re201, dynachord echochord,it sounded great but far from my favourite king tubby record.... I through re201 and especially dynachord(highly recommeded!)was not as good as i expected. I was wrong.... With condeser mic+tape recorder these item produce the drum reverb sound i want without any compression or smart setting... With a pair off CONDENSER mic a little far from the drum, an accurate room(should be a as non reverberant as possible)and the Swinger GrandFather Clock(well said!) your job is done,a child game!(;-) note:the mix deck is very important too,sould have only GOOD PREAMP | ||
| KoCha |
Sorry... the yamaha md8 was discountinued at the end of year 2002... my resealer tell it to me. Now just my point of view : If you want to do roots, look for analog desk with analog recording it's sound better for this style. If you go do electro-dub look for digital recording with integreted digital recording because you didn't need the warmest of the analogu... i found the cheapest for way for roots is to get analog desk and digital recording... but it's depand what your local used shops get... If think what aleph say is the best for dubbing... oldskool rootical dub style! ya man! But keep in minds that's very important, because the hardware make sounding different what you do. So hear to cd what you love, and try to find the combination you want.. Dub-Versions rules all Nations! KoCha www.Almighty-Dub.fr.st | ||
| Mike Zee |
C'mon, KoCha, really, You can record/dub/mix roots dub with digital multitrack recorder. Analog-Tape "sound" isn't really major factor. Also to beat digital multitrack recorder you need pretty good Reel-To-Reel in good shape, not just anything, and casste multitrack will not do at all (it's only good for demos from sound quality point, just look at specs of any cassete recorder). On the other hand if you make what you keep calling 'electro-dub' (what ever you mean by the way, because 'digital' and 'electro' have nothing to do with each othere), then you still may use analog reel-to-reel if you wish and take all the best what reel-to-reel has to offer and well, of course, to also deal with all the 'problems' what comes with tape-recording and limitations in editing, tracks re-recording etc. My point is: the 'style of dub' isn't the reason why you decide to get analog reel-to-reel or digital recorder. The most REASON why producers like analog tape is because it's easier to have a "happy custommer" - the recording REAL band. Analog recording is simply more 'robast', in general it is easier to record better sounding band on analog tape with good set of premps, while digital recording is more 'flexable', but to get the right sound, capturing 'mother nature' - the acustic sound from drummer, guitars, sax, tambourine, hand clappings, amp-cabs, ...what else...hmmmm, how about 'sound of rocker's hair-shake'? heh heh - you see all this stuff is very hard to put together with 'whimpy, sensetive' digital eqipment. This is what Aleph is trying to say, as I understand... okey, blah blah later, guys, /respects, /Mike Zee ********** ohhhhh, P.S. Dan! DO NOT get minidisc recorder. It's the last choice. The data is compessed, there is no headroom for recording, it sound like poo.. , really, also the MD-drive is a real bad thing from point of vew 'instant access', the whole format is absolute 'mess', MD-drive simply can not work like Hard-Drive. These machines are only good if you are working on some demos or sketches and it's a good thing in case you want to snail-mail you multi-track scatch to somebody, who has the same machine, or simply if you do all your music just for play-time fun. | ||
| Dan |
Thanks Mike Zee. No, I won't buy anything with a minidisc. I think I will probably end up going with the stand alone digital recorder with hard drive and use an analogue mixer, effects, etc., and probably mix down to a cd recorder (something like Tascam RWU4 (I'm guessing at model name; don't have it in front of me.) Thanks to everyone for all their help on this question!! Peace. Dan | ||
| KoCha |
Combi-Nation... A/D can do both very good things... take the best from all ! just combi-nation !!!! Mike... i'm perhaps not a "pro" but i can't find a hearing difference between my .wav and my record to my minidisc... Low to High freq respond perfect like digital device. It's like the war 48/96hz... lol... A man say it's no difference a man say he can hear the difference... But at the end.. it's for very little difference... so personnaly i can't hear the difference between md-recording and hd-recording.. Perhaps my tracks are not enough powerful for making this difference visible... Dan : keep in minde your digital workstation must have a cd-burner or an PC-interface for backuping data... very important! KoCha www.Almighty-Dub.com | ||
| aleph |
Another problem with md compression is the mask effect: If their is two sounds a the same moment the md will record only the more powerfull one,the most of the time it's not a problem because you can't hear the less powerfull sound(the mask effect)but it sometimes can change original sound, it can be heard in case off mastering.. In fact problems occurs when you apply tratment as mike said:it's difficult to hear the difference beetwen 48/96hz but if you compares how you can boost in 96hz with a plug or external 96hz device.... I'm not the digital ennemi(you can do roots dub with digital)but i just want to make roots the easyest way possible because it's well knowed the more tratment you apply(EQ,comp) the less "natural" your sound will be(phaser and filters needs all hz),and this roots sound we need for dubbing was done simply like this sometimes without any compression or expensive items:a good place for your mic+tape sat,and highly smoked musicians off course(;-). I've found nothing,all as been done 30year before,for that i would like to give thanks and a lot off respect to LSP with his Black Ark and King Tubby with his selfmade items the two kings off dub. | ||
| Looter |
Also, I think most MD multi-trackers use the DATA minidiscs, which are harder to find than the regular audio ones. | ||
| KoCha |
Yes you are all surely true.. i think my basic tracks are not enough powerful for hearing difference. But i tried recording my friend playing guitar and me blowing melodica over.... and now i hear little compression and difference. So thx for learning to me.. A question : What the "headroom" what the fonctionnement ? Thx a lot KoCha www.Almighty-Dub.com | ||
| HM |
The tape vs digital sound is all about the way tape behaves when getting close to, and passing the zero-point, (o dB), plug-ins like "magneto" can ad this effect to a hole DAW-track, but my VST-32 has the same algorithm merged into the audio-engine itself, its then calle "true-tape" and when entering this mode al tracks recorded will be added this effect at the fly, steinberg implimented true-tape in the largest cubase- versions becourse people keep´t on taking about the blessings of the tape-sound, many people in the cubase-forums reported very intusiastic how coll this true-tape is, I have not tried to test seriously my self yet, but I think the idea is good, but also hold for a fact that I might end up to like the pure digital sound much better, I LOVE clean sound and good cond- mic´s, TLM-103 just added :-), I don´t think that DUB should be low-fi, and don´t think we should try to recreate 80´s sound with todays equipment, we might hunt certain aspects about the periode but also avoidt what was bad back then, what realy makes a big diffrence is to have the possibility to DUB a REAL band, and not just using pre-made loops and midi-tracks at least make it as live as possible, just to as a little hand-played congas make mirracles to a programmed track HM | ||
| Mike Zee |
KoCha, when I've said about MD8, that it has 'too little headroom' - it was actually a 'stupid thing' to say from 'technical point' ..heh heh, well ... nobody's perfect I was thinking not about headroom, but rather recording range of the unit. Digital recorders as I understand technically have no headroom, another words, when it's "0" - it's "0", so you gotta stay below - or you ar in trouble...heh heh. So in general, if digital recorder/device uses any form of data-compression - the recording dynamic range is effected. More data compression - less "room" for recording, before you hit the top - digital "0", and in digital world, when you hit "0" - you are walking on the edge. But, again, this has nothing to do with 'headroom'. What's "headroom"? It's a "little space" on top where you still can jork around safely ... heh heh - that's my non-technical "definition" Better to say: Headroom is the portion of the decibel range that starts where the sound begins to distort and ends at the point where the distortion becomes a unpleasant or unacceptable, sort of speak - BAD CLIP. Well, theoretically (or technically) digital recorders still have some headroom, but practically - no head-room really. This is another complex subject , really. Some digital 'clips' are acceptable, depending on the lengs, short clips can be 'unaudiable' and thus 'promitable'... KoCha, if you really wish to dig deeper into this, try to search google.com for some info about analog and digital metering, headroom, recording leveling etc... there's allots of blah-blah and serious info about it.... also not realated to the subject of this topic, really...;) /respects, /Mike Zee | ||
| Dan |
Hi Mike Zee: as an update to my recording adventures: I got an Akai DR8 on ebay, and it worked well for a couple of weeks, but now I keep getting a "sys err 6" message in the LED, and it won't let me do anything. I bring this up because I notice in one of your emails in this thread that you mentioned a similar problem with your one DR4, and I was just curious if you were able to get it resolved, at the shop or otherwise. The akai helpdesk is unfortunately not returning any of my emails. Thanks in advance for any light you might shed on this vexing problem (otherwise, I really liked the DR8 a lot). Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
grrrrrrrrrrr  Dan, this may be 'fixable' or may be a very bad situation, where you'll have to maybe send the machine to any available local akai-service shop...and it may cost you..., stuff like installing a new hard-drive as example. Now, bad thing about these machines, that you can't fix much by yourself... there's no' much to be "fixed" in there to begin with... it's pretty much like a 'computer'. Do you have manual? I need one if you don't. First of all see manual if there's an 'error message' explanation there... usually it's like a table (message/explanation/what to do). Err 6 may have some specific meaning. It can be something simple, like not enough HD space (meaning that you are symply out of 'record-time'...so you need to erase something before you can keep recording. There are some other specific situations when you get error message...but there's nothing really wrong with the machine. ********* Now, the only reall 'fixer' is a sort-off "system-restoration" - it's like "using restoration CD-Rom for your computer in a sense...when you computer gets screwed.... One thing you should try to do is "format disc". You need to read and follow manual's step-by-step how to do it...which buttons to push in what order, you know. I can't tell you for sure...cos it's a bit different on DR4s. Btw as I remember you can download DR8 manual from akai official site (in case you don't have one). Also make sure you get the manual for exact software version of operation system of your machine, because the operations may be somewhat different in different V-versions. OK, here's how it is in DR4s (it maybe similar in DR8s): 1.Press "SUB-MENU" key (it will start flashing) 2.Press "FORMAT" key. Number of "The Disc (scsi ID) may appear... if you have no external discs, then you don't need to select the disc. 3.Press STORE/ENT key "ErRSE" may appear on the display. 4.Use jog-wheel to select "For" (format) 5.Press STORE/ENT key 6."SUrE" may appear on the display. (Remember, that formating WILL erase ALL the data/recordings from your machine!) 7.Press STORE/ENT key. The machine will start formating process. Something may be flashing on the display (like "For"-flashing message)...and you will hear hard-disc working sound...similar to what computer's HD sound like....but usually it works more like rhythmiccally..and less 'random-sound' as computer's HD.... It sounds more like some sort of 'clock-device'. When it's done...some other 'message' may appear on the display.... like "complete". You may need to press "STORE/ENT" key for one more last time. Then you're done. I have a card with authorized akai service centers. If you let me know what area you are...I can try to find address and phone No closest to you. *********** btw, I have not fixed mine. Still have bad problem. I can't really record anything safely on it... just am using it as a synch-unit at the moment. I just didn't have time to deal with it.... mine looks liike need to be fixed at the service center....formating didn't help ********* well, man, good luck post an update ..how is it going. /respects, /Mike Zee aka DrZEE | ||
| Dan |
Mike Zee: thanks for the kindly detailed answer. I'm sorry, I should have told you that I have a manual and that I have tried to erase and reformat and each time get a "fail" message. I don't think this augurs well. Luckily for me, the single authorized akai repair place in Pennsylvania is literally like 8 miles from my house, which is such a stroke of luck. Needless to say, my unit is heading to the shop tomorrow. Will keep you posted. Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
8 miles ! indeed - lucky You! Dan, drop a note here after its done. I really wish to know what info you get about what was wrong and what was fixed and how and what cost. I have to pull myself together and fix mine... and maybe btw to install bigger drive and latest oper-system...cos the one I have problem with has 500MB drive and old system ...so it's not a much of a "recorder" in a sense /later, man... /Mike Zee aka DrZEE | ||
| Dan |
Mike Zee: took unit in yesterday for repair. The tech guy said it's probably a hard drive problem, and it may need to be replaced. Now, here's where it gets interesting. He told me that akai stuff can be a little hard to deal with in the older models because apparently akai itself is always teetering on the verge of going out of business. I have a 2 GB hard drive in my unit (I'm not using any external hard drives, yet), and he said that it would probably be cheaper to get something like a 40 GB hard drive and have that installed, than it would be to try to find the now pretty obsolete 2 GB version. Naturally I'd be all for getting the largest HD possible for my unit (why not?), but he told me that that can't always be done, because often the recording unit's software just doesn't recognize a larger-capacity drive. Anyway, he goes to two supply houses, and sometimes akai itself, for parts. Some places are cheaper than others, so he's going to shop and let me know (also, he stressed that the problem may not be the hard drive....that was just the guess off the top of his head). He's going to let me know the price, but did warn me that if it's the hard drive, we could be talking in the $400 - $500 range (in US money; not sure where you're located). Ouch! But, there's not much I can do. I'm just too far in at this point not to press forward (I'm sure this is a familiar feeling to many posters on this board). Plus, I really do like the akai. The tech guy said they were definitely the first really easy to use stand-alone hard drive recorders, and he really likes them himself....but unfortunately, like any computer, they can have hard drive problems. That's my tale for today. He's going to call me next week, so I'll let you know. Also, he said he doubts it was anything I did to cause the problem; that if it's the HD, it probably just crashed on its own. Peace. Dan | ||
| Mike Zee |
wow, Dan, $400-500!!! this is no-good, man I don't know really what to say. I guess let it be to checked out and see for sure what's wrong. But , really , replacing HD for $500 - does not look like a good idea. For $500-600 you can get yourself another DR8 unit. I've seen on e-bay DR8 loaded with optional cards (which are about $200 themseves) for $595 - buy it now option. I've seen DR8 for under $350. If your machine has problem with HD, but still can drive external HD without problems, then I'd say go for getting SCSI cable (btw, it's a "special" cable-sort of old-style, which may be a trick to find, I think you can ask the akai-center guy where to get one) and get external HD. 40GB???? hmmmmm, yeah , well, you don't really need to have a such huge HD. Get the one which DR8 can 'deal with'...., depending on operation system version, there's a limit on the size of HD. If I'm correct, the way it works, if you have 'too large' HD, then during formating process it will just format the HD to the size which operating system can 'deal with' and the rest will be just 'unused'..., but I'm not sure about it. well, man, drop a note, when hear final word on 'diagnosis' ... /regards /Mike Zee, aka DRZEE | ||
| Dan |
Mike Zee: thanks for the sympathy! Yeah, I don't know what I'll do. I've thought about just buying another unit on ebay, but that's where I got this one, and what's to say the next one I get just won't wind up with the same problem? I think your idea about maybe bypassing the internal HD altogether and going the scsi route with an external drive is a very good one, and that might just be an affordable way to get around this problem. We'll see what the tech dude says. Will keep you posted. Peace. Dan | ||
| Dan |
Yo Mike Zee: here's another update on the hard drive recorder. The tech guy has not had any luck locating a replacement hard drive for my Akai. DR8 (I took it in June 6) and I just got tired of waiting to record again. So, he's going to buy the unit off me to use for parts (for more than I think I could have gotten off Ebay (who would buy a DR8 with a crashed drive when it weighs 30 lbs. to ship?). I've been selling off other musical equipment and old hi-end stereo pieces, and I got enough money together to buy a Fostex D2424LV, which I got for a good price off muscian's friend ($1,299, US). In short, I decided to go with something new that will at least come with a warranty and won't be something that I can't upgrade or else end up outgrowing too quickly. It has 24 analog I/O, no mixer, and came with a 40GB hard drive, which is far more than I will need for a long time. 24 tracks is a lot more than I need (8 is about it, but nobody makes an 8 or 16 track standalone anymore). Plus, Fostex seems to be one of the more stable companies out there. Akai, Alesis and Mackie always seem to be on the verge of bankruptcy/shutting down altogether. So, my lesson learned is this: don't buy old hard disk recorders unless you can get them dirt cheap (and I mean dirt cheap), or else can fix them yourself. Otherwise, it's just too much hassle. A stand alone made in 1996 might as well have been made in 1906 with how fast technology moves these days. I would have been better off spending the extra money all along. That's it. If something goes wrong with this one, Fostex can worry about it! Hope you're doing well. Peace. Dan | ||
| Looter |
I hate to repeat myself over and over, showing how partial I am to my setup. But, if you are a beginner at dub, I would recommend you scrape together $150-300 and buy an 80's vintage TASCAM 246 portastudio. It must be this model if you want the most versatile, easy to operate portastudio, and it is the only one really suited for dub. It is a powerhouse! You digital-only guys may question the sound quality but how many have you worked with? At double the regular cassette speed and with DBX noise reduction (and proper tape formulation) it sounds amazing, fooled many experts at the recording magazines, they thought recordings produced on one were full studio productions. Check out the album "Robbin the Hood" by Sublime, one of my favorite white, american reggae/punk groups. Many of the tracks were done on the 246, along with a TR-808 and tape echo in the lead singer/guit player's living room! Downlaod their version of Tosh's "Steppin' Razor". I bet you've never imagined it done the way these guys did it! | ||
| Mike Zee |
Dan, thanks for posting well, what can I say. I guess i'd agree with your advice to NOT to buy used HD-recorder (if possible)...in a sense it's like buying used computer, you know.... You'd buy used computer only if it's like almost for nothing...like for 20-50 bucks or something ..heh heh. OK, at least you've made it clear for yourself what to do. BTW, 24 tracks isn't that much, really, when you start using the machine..you'll see. It's only 12 stereo instruments/voices for the mix...so it's like about right for music production take care, man, hope to talk to you later her... about what ever.... /respects, /Mike Zee aka DrZEE | ||
| Dan |
Looter: I hear ya, man. I have nothing against analog recorders, and many analog recordings are just simply wonderful...but there's much to be said for digital when it comes to recorders. I remember when editing meant a razor blade, white gloves, wax pencil and the splicing block. For my money, you can't beat digital for putting down tracks: clean, easy editing; virtual takes, no tape degradation, endless ping-ponging, instant access to anything, anywhere in miliseconds... I've heard a lot of great things about the those early Tascams, but my record right now with used equipment is not very reassuring. Like a lot of folks on this board, my set-up is both analog (my mixing board) and digital, whatever seems best for the job (my effects are both). I don't do any sampling or MIDI stuff now, but who knows in the future? If I chose to go those routes in the future, the Fostex can handle it all....if I don't, no harm done. Peace. Dan | ||
| Looter |
I mix down to my computer, so that's mainly where digital comes into place in my studio. I like being able to polish my mixes with Sound Forge. But, I am thinking of getting a half-track reel machine because computers can get viri or have a number of other problems crop up. Right now, my backup mixdown deck is a vcr. This is my main complaint about DAWs. Menus, etc.. Mixing with a mouse? I mean, come on! This is not dubwise. And if your HD crashes you loose the whole song. Editing capability is much better with digital I agree. I just think digital was made for the new "manufactured" music you hear on pop radio today. Everything's so perfect sounding its unnatural, the artists dont need much talent--that can all be "fixed in the mix." I'll stop now, because I really don't want to just start up the great analog vs. digital debate again. Both methods of multitracking have their merits and it's all just personal preference. And Mike Zee, 24 tracks isn't enough?? Try working with four! You really have to plan things to maximize your productions with a limited number of tracks. IMHO, you learn some skills this way that carry over when you move up to more tracks/larger format. | ||
| HM |
>> Mixing with a mouse? http://www.netzmarkt.de/thomann/artikel-160144.html >> Everything's so "perfect" That´s about how to use or abuse technology >> if HD crashes you loose the whole song. Use raid-configuration and prober back-up many old tapes are so rotten that remixes can´t be done, this can be avoidet by HD and regular re-burns to cd-rom, easy put copyes in several location as well in case of fire-damage, things getting stolen etc. >> Both methods have their merits As for tape-sound steinberg gives the choise to record in "true-tape" mode to emulate the behaviour of analog tape, I think I would prefer it clean still :-) Dub does not HAVE to be noisy to be good HM | ||
| Looterlabs |
HM: I didn't say anything about dub having to be noisy.. In fact, my analog recorder is quite quiet, with my spring reverbs and tape echos generating the most noise. And I hate it when people try to emulate the harmonic distortions of analog tape with plugins. Don't try to make your recordings something they're not! PS: Even if you do buy one of these "control surfaces" to mix with, youre still at the mercy of menus and the speed of your computer. Analog you twist the knob, you get instant results. | ||
| HM |
>> Even if you do buy these "control surfaces" Yes seen, still better than a mouse :-) >> hate when people try emulate the harmonic I don´t use it, but think that "anything is allowed", especially dubwise, I´m no purist (still respect your point also) >> Don't make recordings some they're not! I share your passion for hardware spring, and tape-echo, when I put spring on the snare I make it some-thing it´s not ;-) >> Analog twist knob, instant results. Yes, as for me , both world´s facinates me, and go well hand in hand I think, the human spirit and brain behind matters most, and make the tool´s,..... well just tools One thing I do prior more and more as I age is the "real" instruments, conga, melodica, piano, bas, even a old drumset is being restored for the studio now, I thought that I would hit towards vsti´s, and 90 pct prog- ramming, but my dream today is to dub live sessions,... digital recorded,... he he I would not start a ana/dig war, just add a few aspects,. just upraded my desk, hope to tweak it besides the software, RME9652 with cubase 16 I/O´s so lots of sends to space- echo and other nice outboard, hand in hand peace HM | ||
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Geben mir bitte eine Brotchenjnm | ||
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