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KoCha

Posted on Wednesday, September 17, 2003 - 09:34 pm:

Greetings to you Dubhead,

****
I've not do lot of post this last time... because family problem and the only things i wanted is doing music ! you'know feel good vibes!
****

In school they ask me about doing a "memory"... i have choice of any subject, so i decided to speak about the influance of dub music to today music (in this terms, i need define some music genre i would study, d'n'b, hip-hop, hardcore and perhaps other electronic music that i think dub-influanced).

Did you know some musical genre that use one/some same studio technic like 70's dub producer but before the 70's ?

Have some info about the root of the different musical genre i speak before ?

BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT : What do you think about that ??
And if you do dub-influanced music, how the dub influance you in your creation ??

I would be very happy to get answer, from anyone, please give your advice !!

Thanx a lot for your response.

KoCha
www.Almighty-Dub.com

interruptor

Posted on Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 07:43 pm:

your questions are not so easy to answer.. it's true that the dub pioneers did things in the seventies that became commonplace in electronic dance music ten years later (few or no vocals, no song structure, dominant beat, echo effects) and we as dub fanatics tend to see this as an influence of dub on electronic music. but most dance music producers will completely deny such an influence and claim that it all started with house music around 1986, which is rather seen as an electronic follow-up to the late seventies' disco. one should ask house pioneers like Frankie Knuckles or Jesse Saunders whether they listened to dub or not. i think it's likely that the similarities between early house and dub are coincidences. a good idea can independently emerge at different times in different places.
now that both musical forms (house + dub) exist the two can easily be mixed as it is done by many acts. check rockers hifi's "push push" as an example or many tracks by the group zion train. also my own "inner city dub" (see music page) is an example of combining dub effects and reggae sound timbres with a modern electronic beat.

i cannot think of a modern genre which is clearly influenced by dub as a whole although there are examples of songs/tracks with a dub influence in many genres. Even the Jungle/Drum&Bass scene which comes to my mind first as a genre which is influenced by dub is split into dub sympathisants and dub haters.

some of the dub techniques have been used before dub of course: think of the sound collages on the beatles' sgt. pepper album for example. also the rhytmic noise patterns on jimmy hendrix' "third stone from the sun" come to my mind.
but as far as i know the use of echoes in combination with on-the-fly muting of individual tracks was new at the time when tubby, perry, etc. started doing this.
anyway, these techniques only make sense in a very repetitive music where most band members repeat a short riff or line again and again. this concept was not common in western music until electronic dance music appeared. i guess that's why some dub techniques appeared in house and not in earlyer pop music!

Sean

Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 06:11 am:

I hear the term "dub" mixed in with the drum & bass scene. Maybe its more in name than real production as described on this site as I know a lot of it is purely electronic/dj mixes. I hear the term "dub plate" with harder d&b sounds, heavyHEAVY bass

with reggae beats that make you bounce. The Dub Jungle as I like to call it. I know what dub plates are and I suspect it's just making the lingo because of the heavy BASS

that is typical with old reggae dub plates. It's not as fast tempo as pure d&b. I'm a big fan of Congo Natty, the serious junglist with positive energy in the spirit of Salassie I & Jah! And, Micky Finn puts down some hard tracks.

Posted on Friday, September 26, 2003 - 12:51 pm:

Dub has become a "fashion-word" ,... adopted
bye the techno-scene etc. ,... but dub is
is not what I hear comming from these people

There root is not afro-carribian based,. the
skank is gone,.. so is the reggae-connection
and respect for the hole dub-tradition

Just like "fashion-dreads" calling themself
rasta,... not knowing the word realy :-)

HM

dns

Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:17 am:

dub techno is dub-influenced techno music, the influence is mainly the groove (with subbass), dub-delayed drums or chords and the arrangement (certain type of playing with sound elements).
the first dub techno records were released on basic channel others followed on labels like maurizio or chain reaction, or the 'more roots-like' (this style is sometimes called dub house) labels rhythm & sound, main street (originaly a house label) and burial mix.
some of those labels are still active (chain reaction, burial mix, rhythm & sound). those influenced the sounds of other labels/artists as well, for example bluetrain (pretty 'dry' and minimal dub sounds), phono elements (pascal feos) or raum...musik (d.diggler).
but this style never played a major role in techno music (at least not the role other styles had/have).

sound-examples:
maurizio - m4 (a1) - maurizio:
http://www.circonium.de/music/audio/m4.ram

quadrant - q1.1 (b1) - basic channel:
http://www.nuloop.com/real/BasicChannel/bc04_b1.rm

rhythm & sound w/ tikiman - jah rule (a1) - burial mix:
http://www.nuloop.com/real/Burial/bm07_a1.rm

bluetrain - tighten up (b1) - mosaic:
http://www.nuloop.com/real/Mosaic/mosaic-35_b1.rm

d. diggler - atomic dancefloor (b2) - raum...musik:
http://www.nuloop.com/real/Raummusik/musik027_b2.rm

sebbo & mike vd viven - even (a1) - phono elements:
http://www.nuloop.com/real/PhonoElements/pho013_a1.rm

btw: i'm techno dub producer myself
new track: http://web8.148130.vserver.de/dns_sealevel.mp3

i'm glad to help you and to spread information about this style of music i love that much
be free to answer/ask questions:

archer2000@gmx.de

greetz tobias aka dns

ps: as you already said 'dub' also became a fashioned word - i read it especially on house records (club mix - dub mix), but this is certainly not dub techno (or dub house) and imo no dub at all

Mike Zee

Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 01:45 am:

dns,
first of all , thanks for taking time posting .rm sample links. Nice sounding stuff to my ear...well, because I like these deeper kind of 'trancy' tracks. And I use the 'word' 'trancey' not in connection with 'trance' as genre of electronic music...but in connection of direct meaning of the word 'trance' as state of mind

But, you are touching the 'hot flamable' area here again...linking to discussion of what's dub ..lol , so here we go again.
But I'm not going to say anything, exept, that I am strongly advise to use the word "FUSION".
I would categorize this kind of music as dub-trance fusion, dub-techno fusion or dub-house fusion etc...., this just make more clear sense to me: so as example dub-techno fusion, means: it is basicly a techno-music track, mixed(or influenced with the feel or techniques) with elements of dub.
And on the other hand: as example, techno-dub fusion, would mean, that it is a dub track, but with elements or feel, or influences of techno.
You see, both examples may seams to be the same, but in its very bone/spine they are dramaticly different , even sort of 'opposite' to each other genre-wise, mood, feel, usefulness etc...
But then again, producers aren't going to follow any 'systematic' terminology, so it will remain to be a mystery of confusion for the rest of our existence ..

/respects,
/Mike Zee aka Dr. ZEE

dns

Posted on Friday, January 09, 2004 - 11:45 pm:

you're certainly right mike
it's just the way of categorizing music
but categorizing music is impossible, because music is a subjective thing
for the 'users' as well as for the producers

every kind of music is more or less a fusion of other styles (with different influences) or just other emotions,feelings etc.

if we call it dub-techno or techno-dub or something else - the music remains the same
and every try of categorizing music just pushes it into 'drawers', which is not fair to the single song/track

so let's just call it music ;)

greetings tobias dns

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